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Future of SP2/SERPS
Dennis .
Posted: 23 March 2012 09:09:56(UTC)
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Can anyone clarify the current position on SP2?
I thought that it was already a done deal that SERPS/SP2 will cease to be after the flat rate £140 pension comes in. ie if you reach 65 after 2016 you can forget it. So I wonder if anyone out there retiring after 2016 has run a pension forecast and what it says?

I retire in 2013 and my BR19 forecast shows a pension of about £180/week (I will believe it when I get it etc).

Any experts out there?

note that you can vary a number of things on the state pension forecaster but not your date of birth!
Sceptic
Posted: 23 March 2012 09:28:43(UTC)
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This comment is not a personal cri de coeur, as I am already drawing my State Pension, which does not contain much SP2/SERPS, since I was contracted out most of my working life. But if I had been in SERPS I would be expecting to be getting something in return for my contributions. Surely the £140 can only apply to those who have not already built up larger contributory state pensions, and will therefore not come into payment for much of the pensioner population for some years?
Mark22
Posted: 23 March 2012 10:17:41(UTC)
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As I read it, the £140 flat pension will come into force in 2016 and will replace both existing pensions.

I was advised to opt back-in to S2P (by somebody who was using government provided information). Anybody who will be worse off ought to be able to sue the government for mis-selling for any contributions made into SERPS and S2P after 1990 when the original offer to opt-out of SERPS was enabled.

(Actually I presume that the powers that be will find some way of stopping this but it should be worth a try).

Dennis .
Posted: 23 March 2012 10:38:18(UTC)
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Mark Have you got an actual pension quote? If so what does it say? It might be useful evidence later on.
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Mark22 on 23/03/2012(UTC)
sgjhaghsdg
Posted: 23 March 2012 11:54:30(UTC)
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If there is anyone here who hasn't read "A state pension for the 21st century", and the summaries of responses, then I suggest they do so.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/co...sion-21st-century.shtml
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Mark22 on 23/03/2012(UTC), Hilary hames on 23/03/2012(UTC)
Mark22
Posted: 23 March 2012 13:21:25(UTC)
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Dennis .;14383 wrote:
Mark Have you got an actual pension quote? If so what does it say? It might be useful evidence later on.


Yes I do, unfortunately (for us) it includes a statement "Please note these amounts can go up or down depending upon changes in your circumstances or the law" ... "This means that the amount ... you actually receive may be different from that shown in your forecast.". i.e. we can do whatever we like and the only response you have is at the ballot box every now and then.


Hilary hames
Posted: 23 March 2012 18:40:12(UTC)
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sgjhaghsdg, I have read the consultation paper but what happens to the second state pension isnt really covered?
For those that have a second pension, often a significant amount because didnt pay into a workplace pension that surely would still be added on ie considered as an occupational pension would be - a separate pension but its just convenient to pay it with main pension.
Personally I have been 'growing' my pension since I became entitiled to it at 60 and am now 65 so am expecting a reasonable sum when I take it on my 66th birthday
The consultation paper is interesting in that organisations have commented that a two tier system is not a good thing to have - it could be 50 years of duality for those of us determined to live into our 100's
john brace
Posted: 23 March 2012 19:01:15(UTC)
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Some time ago, when the £140 flat rate pension was first suggested, I read that anyone contracted out would have the value of their second pension deducted from the £140.
I fear that this will happen which is a shame for anyone who has invested wisely and built up extra funding.
It's OK once the transition is over and there should be a phasing-in of the new pension.
sgjhaghsdg
Posted: 23 March 2012 19:40:11(UTC)
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@Hilary - HMG have said that anything someone has already accrued won't be taken away, but the consultation docs suggest that that £140 will be reduced for every year you were opted out with a minimum of the current basic state pension.

This is all a long, long time away, but I'm still glad I was opted out for many years. HMG still reckon I have accrued a fair whack of S2P but I'm still only putting 2x basic into my retirement plans. Annoyingly, this means that the state pension is roughly the same as our income tax bill will be in retirement. :-(
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Hilary hames on 25/03/2012(UTC)
Mark22
Posted: 24 March 2012 07:43:15(UTC)
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As ever, it seems to be one of those times where the powers that be want us to commit to something for 40 years based upon a set of rules that change at the last minute. The government are touting the £140 pension as a "simplification" and "increased fairness". Unfortunately they won't tell us what the rules are until its too late to do anything about it.

They then won't apply it in the same way to everybody and there will inevitably be losers. We won't know who the losers will be until after the event at which point they will ignore them and move on to the next ill thought out change.

Citywire could start a campaign to get the government to consult on a number of possible implementations of the £140 pension, detailing how it would affect State Pensions, Benefits, etc.. The British population is intelligent enough to decide what's best for the country out of a set of choices.
banjofred
Posted: 24 March 2012 09:04:30(UTC)
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They are just thieves.

Rob pensioners as they have the money and wont be around long to complain about it.

Seems like a good plan Mister true blue Osborne.

Dennis .
Posted: 24 March 2012 09:23:09(UTC)
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Banjofred, there was an interesting article in the FT yesterday from Tim Leunig from a Liberal (ie left wing) think tank (Centreforum) talking about how pensioners should be treated just like normal workers and pay NI contributons and lose 25% tax free lump sums out of pension pots etc. I checked him out here

http://centreforumblog.w...ax-equality-tim-leunig/

my point is that your comment about true blue Osborne might be wide of the mark. Voting labour might push us down this route even faster!
banjofred
Posted: 25 March 2012 16:29:01(UTC)
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Dennis,

you may be right.

I went for the CONs this time due to a real hated of Gordon Brown, and a strong dislike of Balls, Milliband, Harman etc al who like Blair are not "real" labour people at all, they are just usurpers of Labour as a handy party to take power and follow their own agenda.

Unfortunately in punishing that lot I really punish myself, and the CONs hate the North, hate the poor, love the rich South and the polo set, and thats it.

Beyond that I have a feeling that regardless of the party in power, there is an establishment behind it all that keeps the status quo - and we are just Pawns in their Game (B Dylan).

So there is no answer, no alternative. No strong man has come forward to say "I will fight your corner"
No pressure group of grey pound people has formed as we are all "supporting" our party - like the silly cow who was on a radio phoine in the other day saying how she would be much worse off in eveyr way with this new budget, but would still support the Conservatives !!

Why?? Because thats the thing to do old bean ..........

I can understand why some countries have coups, revolutions, or like France permanent road blocks and placards. At least they get change, even if the change is for the worse.


I will get my money out as I can and squander it.
Paul 51
Posted: 27 March 2012 18:56:32(UTC)
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Im 60 retire 2016 Im gutted by this goverment with serps I had a forcast in 2010.
I would have recieved 224 pound per week never been out of work .
its my money not there,s how would osbourne like it if I raped his pension and give it away.
to some drunk who never bothered to get a job.
Dennis .
Posted: 27 March 2012 19:50:33(UTC)
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Paul51
I can see how you might be gutted but I think you might find that the proposals for a flat rate pension was first made by the last government at a rate of £153/week.
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Paul 51 on 02/04/2012(UTC)
Hard Done By
Posted: 28 March 2012 12:29:41(UTC)
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The following letter from the Pensions Minister appeared in Monday's Daily Telegraph:


SIR – I’m pleased to reassure people that the Chancellor was very clear in the

Budget when he said that entitlements built up under the existing system would be recognised when the single-tier state pension system comes in (report, March 23).

Under a single-tier system the additional state pension scheme would close. This would mean that people could not make any more contributions to the additional state pension scheme from the date that a single-tier state pension was introduced.

The new system will be set above the level of the basic means test, will be fairer for women and the low paid, and will help ensure that millions can save for their retirement in confidence. We will publish more details in our White Paper this spring.

Steve Webb MP (Lib Dem)
Minister for Pensions
London SW1

This may (or may not) reassure contributors.
banjofred
Posted: 28 March 2012 20:03:36(UTC)
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We have been shafted again.

All we can do is bombard with MPs with prtest - its easy to email your mp just google it.

If we all send at least one a day every day, they will be buried in paperwork

then they will have less time to sit and think of ways to gyp us

Raz.
Posted: 31 March 2012 15:09:02(UTC)
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Joined: 22/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12

to: PAUL 51

I think you will find that you still get £224 when you retire. They will simply reduce the new basic pension proportionately, although nothing is cast in stone yet.
Dennis .
Posted: 31 March 2012 15:53:26(UTC)
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Hard done by
Interesting letter from the Telegraph, I have read it a couple of times and it makes no sense to me

"Existing contributions will be recognised"

"The new system will be set above the level of the basic means test"

this means nothing - or am being a bit thick here?
Paul 51
Posted: 02 April 2012 20:00:31(UTC)
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Nice to know that so far and I mean so far us sixty year olds just might keep our serps.
why do I think that somthing is nasty just around the corner,we get shafted by brownie.
Doing a maxwell on the public and private pensions, knicking billions from them.
Oh tell them its becouse they are living longer, that confuse them, stole that money.
To pay for the bloated public jobs creation , now that been drained, the cons, now want to.
use it as there own bank account,making us all pay more into there pensions.
so they can go upper class on the tranatlantic, eating there non vat caviar.
and in oct we will have to belong to a company pension scheme, whoppy wow.
Here we go after a year or too the company will change its pension company.
change to another one, so left with a choice of suspending it or loose loads money from it.
Putting into a new pension company, why o why can I not choose my own pension company.
you take your bank account to a company when you start a job, why not a pension.
somebody on the make, not me tho.
Been a hard working Electrical Engineer all my life, I greave at the loss of real jobs we lost .
over the years, a lost generation of kids, good kids, when in 5 years time, when I retire.
I will leave the country or become a MP show them the real world which begins in England.
Had me rant find a mp to argue against that.

Paul51


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