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winter fuel payments
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john dougherty
Posted: 21 February 2012 01:17:17(UTC)
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winter fuel payments should be paid to people on working tax credits.
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Ian Grumpy
Posted: 21 February 2012 09:42:31(UTC)
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Morally, probably but the cost would be too great.
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2 users thanked Ian Grumpy for this post.
john dougherty on 21/02/2012(UTC), colin wilson on 21/02/2012(UTC)
john dougherty
Posted: 21 February 2012 12:24:02(UTC)
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it should be means tested by government not paid to high earners and millionaires over 60 years of age.
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Norman
Posted: 21 February 2012 13:51:45(UTC)
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The cheapest, quickest and least controversial way is just to make them taxable.
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1 user thanked Norman for this post.
john dougherty on 21/02/2012(UTC)
Mike
Posted: 21 February 2012 13:57:56(UTC)
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The beaurocracy involved in most of the low value benefits largely outweighs the cost of means testing. I don't know if adding benefits to taxation is any better
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2 users thanked Mike for this post.
colin wilson on 21/02/2012(UTC), john dougherty on 21/02/2012(UTC)
John Wakefield
Posted: 21 February 2012 14:22:29(UTC)
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Three spinster sisters aged over 80, never worked nor paid taxes in their lives; on pension credit and living at the same address each get £300 winter fuel payments ie. £900 to the household. Next door thee spinsters sisters over the age of 80, always worked and paid taxes, not on pension credit and living at the same address get £300 between them ie £100 each. Is that fair especially when they missed qualification for pension credit by as little as a pound?
Remember a pensioner living abroad in tropical climes qualify for winter fuel payments and is this fair?
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5 users thanked John Wakefield for this post.
john dougherty on 21/02/2012(UTC), cc on 21/02/2012(UTC), Guest on 21/02/2012(UTC), snoekie on 22/02/2012(UTC), Senti Meter on 23/02/2012(UTC)
JEL G
Posted: 21 February 2012 14:34:48(UTC)
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It goes towards my wine bill.
Mind you the ten pound Christmas bonus which has never been increased still buys me a reasonable bottle of plonk.
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Michael Stevens
Posted: 21 February 2012 14:56:34(UTC)
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Winter Fuel Allowance is very expensive to admistrate. 3.6 milion on Postage.
Cancell it and increase the State Pension by £150 per year. Simple and means tested by taxation. Also cacell the £10 Christmas.
Michael Stevens
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6 users thanked Michael Stevens for this post.
Guest on 21/02/2012(UTC), colin wilson on 21/02/2012(UTC), john dougherty on 21/02/2012(UTC), DaveT on 22/02/2012(UTC), Dave Duffy on 22/02/2012(UTC), snoekie on 22/02/2012(UTC)
Jimlad
Posted: 21 February 2012 16:15:37(UTC)
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Michael Stevens offers the most rational correction, but governments past and present have ducked this obvious solution because adding it to the basic pension would subject it to the annual CoL increase. Of course there is the added drawback that Chancellors of all political stripes are not sufficiently numerate to link the WFP change with the increased tax take.
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john dougherty on 21/02/2012(UTC), DaveT on 22/02/2012(UTC)
john dougherty
Posted: 21 February 2012 20:55:26(UTC)
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john. the three spinster sisters should be in jail enjoying their heating as it is fraud claiming 3 times for one household.
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DaveT
Posted: 22 February 2012 10:27:24(UTC)
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john dougherty;13972 wrote:
john. the three spinster sisters should be in jail enjoying their heating as it is fraud claiming 3 times for one household.


The problem with this benefit is that there is no formal claim. I have never claimed it and it still arrives every year.

Taxing benefits like this, and child benefit, is the fairest, and most efficient solution. The income tax system used to assume that, if you had children, you had the Family Allowance. If you had failed to claim FA that was your problem but it would still be assumed as part of your income.

Fixing the income tax computer system to make these changes would have insignificant cost. [says 30+ year civil service computer expert]
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john dougherty
Posted: 22 February 2012 11:43:45(UTC)
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dave. i am not talking about child tax credits its working tax credits for married couples over 55 years.
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Dave66
Posted: 22 February 2012 12:22:04(UTC)
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Joined: 22/02/2012(UTC)
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I know a guy that claims the winter fuel payment and he lives in Spain during summer and Goa in the winter cos it gets a bit Chilly in Spain in the winter....bonkers!
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Dave Duffy
Posted: 22 February 2012 13:11:44(UTC)
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Dave66;13985 wrote:
I know a guy that claims the winter fuel payment and he lives in Spain during summer and Goa in the winter cos it gets a bit Chilly in Spain in the winter....bonkers!


Maybe he needs a bit of help with his Electric Bill for the Aircon in Goa... Lol
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Keith Phillips
Posted: 22 February 2012 15:04:24(UTC)
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Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
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All allowances and benefits including fuel, child, housing benefit incapacity benefit etc etc should be taxed. These benefits are simply income. I have not found any good reason why this should not be done and is very simple to apply.
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Michael Wylie
Posted: 22 February 2012 15:20:20(UTC)
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Joined: 09/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1
What about the old folks in care homes (self funding) being paid winter fuel payments while also being paid attendance allowances towards there care home costs. tried to stop the winter fuel payment but was told not really possible; just accert it gaacefully ! ! !
why why when wast, extravagance is known about ( and addmitted; there is nothing done about it when more often than not simple solutions are possible ? ?

Wylie man yorkshire
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dogdays
Posted: 23 February 2012 13:47:40(UTC)
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Joined: 24/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5
Why is it that every time I get near to claiming something that I have paid handsomely into the system to get, someone wants to stop me having it. Bet these bastards didn't shrink from taking my money whilst they were in collage or universety.
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John Wakefield
Posted: 23 February 2012 15:47:22(UTC)
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John Dougherty:

In my illustration no one is committing fraud. What I am trying to get across is that pensioners who have just missed out on pension credit because they worked and contributed to a superannuation scheme are the ones in fuel poverty. People on pension credit are much, much better off. In my illustration I should have mentioned that the 3 spinsters on pension credit also receive cold weather payments of £25 each per week. The pensioner not on pension credit get no such payments.

If anyone doesn’t want winter fuel payments the simple thing to do is ring up DWP they will gladly take you off the payment list. That is unless you are after cheap publicity like Parkinson and Widdecombe.
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2 users thanked John Wakefield for this post.
Senti Meter on 23/02/2012(UTC), john dougherty on 24/02/2012(UTC)
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