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john dougherty
Posted: 14 February 2012 23:15:04(UTC)
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i took my nortel pension at age 51 five years ago and it has been cut by £40 a month.so much for pensions better not having one as it stops you getting benefits.
jeffian
Posted: 15 February 2012 23:37:01(UTC)
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Without underplaying the fact that this is a big issue for you, you can't draw the conclusion that all pension schemes are a waste of time. In this case, you have a bust employer (Nortel), an underfunded scheme and the complication that it is a foreign company outside the protections offered by UK. I'm sorry for your predicament, but that isn't a good reason to advise others to avoid pension schemes. For all their faults, they're generally better than the alternatives!
john dougherty
Posted: 16 February 2012 12:59:47(UTC)
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well it was 33 years ago i was advised to join nortel pension scheme so i would have a good pension for the future. how wrong i was advised like thousands of others in the uk. what i am saying NO PENSION IS SAFE as we all thought, so who is the fool as i know people with no company pension better of claiming benefits.
banjofred
Posted: 16 February 2012 19:42:00(UTC)
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Jeff,

I cant think of a single reason to have a pension scheme.

I have one but if I could go back would do it very differenlty

Save your money in and ISA

The supposed tax benefits of pensions are rubbish - you pay tax when you draw it, then you die and they keep the rest.

The govt pension schemes which cost us MOST OF OUR TAX MONEY (SEE RECENT EXPRESS ARTICLE) are a scam on the total population which must eventually end.

For us to have a similar pension to a teacher etc, we would need a pot fo £600000+
They get it for buttons.

I would draw a line now on all public service pensions as they did to us with company pensions - they can have a money purchase scheme and lump it I say

The amount we pay in these pensions is more than defense, schooling etc etc. The excuse used to be they were paid less than industry, but that is no longer the case

No, pensions are for losers

signed
one of the losers
2 users thanked banjofred for this post.
john dougherty on 16/02/2012(UTC), M D on 08/03/2012(UTC)
jeffian
Posted: 16 February 2012 20:07:28(UTC)
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There is no comparison between an ISA and a pension. An ISA is usually subscribed from taxed income and, although 'tax free' for CGT, still suffers basic rate tax on any dividend income. Pensions enjoy two additional income streams on top of any contributions made by an employee - the employer usually makes a contribution and the Govt adds tax relief. I accept that there are issues around annuities, restrictions on pension drawdown and Inheritance Tax but as a way of creating a capital sum for retirement, like-for-like the pension ought to do better than the ISA. It would be a pity if the next generation ditched pensions altogether because of problems - however real for those affected - with a few schemes. The reality for many would be that, without a company scheme, they probably wouldn't save at all.
Whatisname
Posted: 16 February 2012 20:35:45(UTC)
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I bought Betamax, I bought endowments, I contracted out of NI (with NPI where are they now), I invested in a pension, can anyone spot the trend?

My pension provider, with generous help from Gordon and Ed, managed to lose nearly 1/3 of the money I had contributed. My endowments all paid out considerably less than even the worst forecast when I bought them.

I would like to retire but the value of annuities is going down every day. Thank you Mervyn and the EU with their equality legislation.

The meagre pension my small pot will provide will probably be enough to ensure I do not receive any benefits. I will be 65 a few weeks prior to the proposed flat pension introduction so will be ineligible for it.

Pension planning is a 40 year tax efficient investment with a lot of complicated rules at the end of it, which probably mean you will not get it all back. Unless you are a civil servant, MP, Judge or Local Government employee. Every time the government interfere they make it worse. The greed of the finance sector has ensured their products are generally uncompetitive and are often a ...., I better not say that in public.

So with hindsight I would be very tempted to tell today’s youngsters not to bother and look for alternatives, unless they can get a pensioned position in the public sector. If I had stayed with my Local Government position when I was 25 I would now have been retired for at least 5 years, probably 10 and have a good pension. Instead I am still working, starting my own business and going back to being on the tools.


3 users thanked Whatisname for this post.
john dougherty on 16/02/2012(UTC), Jo Public on 06/03/2012(UTC), M D on 08/03/2012(UTC)
john dougherty
Posted: 16 February 2012 22:22:02(UTC)
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jeff. i think its time the press picked up on this and educate the next generation that pensions are not as safe as we all thought. just like an ISA fund you may not get back what you paid in unless the PPF.can guarantee pensions a 100%
john dougherty
Posted: 22 February 2012 20:31:06(UTC)
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i would like to mention if you ever have to go into a carehome they take your government pension and private pensions.
J Thomas
Posted: 22 February 2012 21:57:24(UTC)
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First time I have used the Forum , and have always been impressed by the contributors financial understanding. Wonder if any writers could guide me on a quandry with my pension.
I have no financial advisor after mine went into liquidation, however have a fairly large personal pension fund of £350,000 which is all invested in one high risk fund , risk 10/10. This is very volatile and over last five years has produced large losses and gains. I now wish to spread the risk by investing in about twenty different funds with same pension company and wonder what the best asset ratio of equity, gilts, property, cash, etc I should use? Fifteen years to retirement, medium attitude to risk, three kids to support. Any advice much appreciated as I dont really want to use a IFA until changes come into effect in December. Thanks
john dougherty
Posted: 22 February 2012 22:30:30(UTC)
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j thomas. try hargreaves lansdown.
1 user thanked john dougherty for this post.
J Thomas on 22/02/2012(UTC)
banjofred
Posted: 23 February 2012 06:24:42(UTC)
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John D, I am sorry about your position. You are one of millions that have been rooked by the pension companies.

I disagree jeffian - although I have pensions and i am doing ok so far, overall form experience and talking with others who got their pensions just after the markets fell off previous cliffs, overall pensions are a very dodgy thing to have - you are going to be done rotten fo rhidden charges that bleed them to nothing whilst giving nothing back in return,
and the supposed tax beneit is a joke - they take it all back at the end

So young people reduce the amount you are putting in pensions - if you dont want to pee it up the wall, save in ISAs or whatever (even property) and dont give it to the Bad Men

I would say to anyone in a scheme with one of the big pension firms - get out and go into a SIPP with HL or one of the others - at least you can see every penny of your money at all times live, and watch it fritter away,

Your Annual statement from one of the scum pension firms is too late!!!!!


Be afraid, be very afraid!!!

J Thomas - go to Hargreaves landowne quick (or other of your choice). Avoid IFAs like the plague - all you need to know can be Googled. fgs dont have 350k in one high risk fund

all the info is on the HL site, for 2400 funds (hey i am sounding like an ad for HL)
of course also lots on CITYWIRE, WITH A MORE INDEPENDENT VIEW THAN HL
gotta act fast - all in one basket is inviting disaster
2 users thanked banjofred for this post.
J Thomas on 23/02/2012(UTC), john dougherty on 23/02/2012(UTC)
Rose G
Posted: 23 February 2012 08:44:27(UTC)
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The private pensions industry benefits the fund managers - anyone investing in them will soon realise there is nothing or very little to show after saving for years. Private pensions were desecrated by governments & now the same is going to be done to the public sector pensions - off course, bankers being an exception, they are still commanding higher than normal salaries & expect their bonuses while nearly every other person actually has no prospect of a bonus in sight, neither for good or bad practice - RBS though owned partly by government are still paying out bonuses even though they have made losses!

It is absolutely obscene that nearly everyone with a private pension has seen great losses made by their investment fund managers, but they will still get bonuses, whether or not funds realise any growth in the pension funds.

Most of us understand very little about how our pensions work, we take it on trust that because we have done the right thing ie save for our pensions, therefore right will be done for us, but expect no such thing. The quick wheeler dealer has made lots of money for the company he works for & he is rewarded mightily, even though a few months later, the same person will have lost the company millions - get rich quick schemes are being dreamt of & sold to the gullible public almost on a minute by minute basis, Somehow those regulating are always caught not just napping, but in a deep coma, until the shite hits the fan - their is no pension scheme worth a bean these days - so, my advise to my young children, do not bother, because it will all be swallowed up by a myriad of charges investment companies are dreaming up as I pontificate on this subject.
1 user thanked Rose G for this post.
john dougherty on 23/02/2012(UTC)
jeffian
Posted: 23 February 2012 10:03:12(UTC)
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I'm not sure which bit of my posts banjofred "disagrees" with; I was just making the point that, for all the shortcomings of fund management/charges and Government meddling, pensions retain one big benefit compared to go-it-alone retirement plans based around ISA's etc in that the cost to the individual is considerably greater if he is putting aside annual sums out of taxed income (ISA) compared to a good company pension where his employer is also making a contribution (6-16% according to stats) and the whole is boosted by tax relief. Whatever else happens, the chances are that for every £1 you put in, you will end up with a greater capital sum in a pension scheme than you would in an ISA. The problem highlighted here (which I do not underplay) , is what happens to that larger fund in terms of the income it will provide (annuity or drawdown) and the tax treatment after retirement, and I accept that huge disappointment in those areas has put many off the whole idea of pensions. I'm not a cheerleader for the pension industry but the specific problems of Nortel - an underfunded scheme in a failed, foreign-owned company - are still, thankfully, the exception rather than the norm and if the cynicism generally expressed here spreads to the next generation (which my experience with my own children suggests is so) then I think a lot of people are heading for a much poorer old age than any post-War generation can conceive. As I have so far failed to convince my own children to take up the offer of any employer-supported scheme, I have been paying into Stakeholder schemes for them for years but of course I won't be around to find out whether they will ultimately thank me for keeping them out of the Poor House or curse me for pouring their inheritance into a Black Hole!
John Gough
Posted: 05 March 2012 18:29:32(UTC)
#14

Joined: 05/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1

With the demise of defined benefit schemes and with the best annuities just offering £6.1K on a £100,000 pension pot. Then ISA's have to be considered, if you managed to save £100K and returned just 4% tax free it would beat the pension that is taxed. However the whole business is complicated bytax etc, but good pension advice here
lynne shaffer
Posted: 06 March 2012 06:53:04(UTC)
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Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
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With a recent assessment by the new GAD rules, my pension is now 12%- yes 12% of what it was last year!!
sgjhaghsdg
Posted: 06 March 2012 08:52:06(UTC)
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@ jeffian - "An ISA is usually subscribed from taxed income and, although 'tax free' for CGT, still suffers basic rate tax on any dividend income."

Taxation of dividends is exactly the same in ISAs and pensions - HMG blocked both from reclaiming the 10% tax, which bags them £5 billion from private pensions and ISAs every year. Sweet!

Pensions win because close to 100% of the time you save more tax on the way in than you pay on the way out and/or you get employer contributions and/or you pay in via salary sacrifice.

ISAs enjoy none of these advantages, but you can withdraw money from them whenever you like. Some will use this to their advantage while others will fritter away the money long before retirement.

The underlying investments are the same in both cases: I have an ISA and a SIPP on the same platform, see both accounts side-by-side and have *more* investment choices in the SIPP than in the ISA.

I use my ISAs to cover the weak points of pensions, and my pensions to cover the weak points of ISAs.
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