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Anyone over 50 is overpaid
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Dennis .
Posted: 01 February 2012 13:02:20(UTC)
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I have theory that most people over 50 are overpaid. This is based on your market worth and is the result of my own experience of being made redundant at 55 and of everyone else I know who has been through the same process. A few years ago I was working for a blue chip IT company earning around £70K if you included my benefits (car, health etc), at age 55 I was made redundant and whilst applying for numerous jobs discovered that I was "too old" " overqualified" " too senior" etc. Off the record discussions with recruiting agencies confirmed the view that the real problem was age (despite legislation) and salary expectations. I found myself applying for jobs on £20K or less and eventually found something for about £15K. All the stuff about senior people can sell their "soft skills" proved to be wrong, I was asked by employers what could I actually do and not what my previous job had been. I ended up doing what I did when I started work ie writing computer programs. Luckily I had a good pension to fall back on.

On this basis, the government and most employers, could easily cut their wage bill by calling the bluff of the over 50's. I hope for their sakes it doesn't catch on.
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Jaygor
Posted: 01 February 2012 14:53:57(UTC)
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You have worked out your employment worth to what the market can bear. In the late 80s and early 90s computer pogramme writers were in very short supply. Market is saturated today for such skills.

Just a few moments ago I was reading about what happened to the Fred the Shred and other baddy bankers in Citywire. Most of them not only walked away with a pension that most us could never even work to earn in our lifetime but they walked into other highly paid jobs. Perhaps there is a market for 'failed' bankers if I can call them that. They might have cost the country a few billion but there is nothing to suggest they are failures or overpaid, it is only our perception or a reflection of the market for such skills. But anyone who who lives off a wages below 30K and claims benefits is deemed a drain on country's resources that it can ill afford. Benefit claimants are even called scroungers.

For my retirement dream pension, I think I can happily live on 40 to 50K per year NOT per week or month at today's cost of living, but I know I will only achieve around £25K per year in about twelve years time, unless retirement age is raised again.
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sgjhaghsdg
Posted: 01 February 2012 19:04:09(UTC)
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We're *really* struggling to find good software engineers even though we pay grads £26k and experienced people £35k to £55k. This is down-to-earth jobs in the gritty North, not fancy financial stuff "darn sarf", so GOK what people are paid down there.

Fortunately, Greece, Italy and Spain don't seem to be able to provide jobs for all of their grads, so we're pulling people in from there.

As for over 50s being over paid, many of my old lags are regularly head-hunted, so supply and demand would seem to disagree.
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Raymond Hurley
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:12:51(UTC)
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Rubbish.
You will be paid what you are worth,irrespective of age.
Perhaps your old employer discovered your true worth.
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S M on 02/02/2012(UTC)
Rustie
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:19:20(UTC)
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Computer people are ten a penny now....I've watched programmers, website designers and software producers working in pubs. The problem for some of the out of work whingers is that their salary expections are ridiculously high...£50 - £70k for someone I could recruit in many city centre bars is ridiculous. £15 - £25k is their real market value. Problem is, many programmers think they're so, so special when in fact they've become a commodity rather than a rarity...............bit like bankers.
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S M on 02/02/2012(UTC)
Powerful Pierre
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:23:51(UTC)
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Everybody has a "sell by" date. Mine was 60 years and I should probably have left my employer a few years earlier, when I was adding greater value. It's hard, but we need to be more honest with ourselves! For some, they can continue adding value into their 60s or 70s, but they are (imho) rare.
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Pensionable age
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:36:37(UTC)
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If everyone is suggesting that at 60 people finish adding value to a company why on Earth would the government keep on extending the retirement age. Surely the right thing to do would be to reduce the retirement age, maybe then the "young" ones can start to really add value to our economy and lead this country to the promised land, wherever that maybe.
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2 users thanked Pensionable age for this post.
banjofred on 02/02/2012(UTC), Ann D on 02/02/2012(UTC)
S M
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:46:38(UTC)
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'Anyone' is a bit of a generalisation.
There was me thinking it was people like the BBC's Mark Thompson on a basic £650k pa and he does not even have to raise a revenue
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Peter Young Engineer
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:48:52(UTC)
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I think the proposition is incorrect.

I know plenty of people over 50 doing quit well for themselves. The point is that you have to have saleable skills, knowledge and experience.

As an mechanical engineer who took redundency at 50 I have had a really good second career in Facilities Management with good salary and perks. I am now retiring of my own volition at 64 years of age. I have also created a second pension. I have been running multimillion pound projects and adding value and feel my knowledge and experience has been appreciated by my employer.

I think it depends on your profession and whether there is demand for it. If there is and you are good at your job, there is always someone out there who needs your skills.
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dd on 02/02/2012(UTC), banjofred on 02/02/2012(UTC)
J
Posted: 02 February 2012 12:58:02(UTC)
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Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
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Pensionable age you got it right.
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Dennis .
Posted: 02 February 2012 14:35:03(UTC)
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I could see my sell by date approaching when I was the oldest person in a meeting and I would come out with comments like "well we tried that 15 years ago and it didn't work then etc..." generally most large organisations have initiatives to make the newcomers think that they are trying something new. Most old hands have seen it all before and need to be moved on or they demoralise the youngsters. I guess we were the same. (evidently the Romans did this too)

I think the issue here is that some 50 + year olds with hard skills are marketable. The problem comes for people who have had "senior" or middle management jobs where you gradually get deskilled as your responsibility and pay goes up such that eventually you are just selling things or organising things or managing people and once you leave your company you discover that you have little value elsewhere.

One recruitment consultant told me that his books were awash with ex senior bank staff who were trying to earn a living as management or financial consultants. He also had loads of IT people.
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xmfclick
Posted: 02 February 2012 15:37:41(UTC)
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Joined: 02/03/2011(UTC)
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Pensionable age;13701 wrote:
why on Earth would the government keep on extending the retirement age
Money. The older you are when you retire, the less the State has to pay out in pensions, at least in theory. The problem may come when the older workers can't get jobs either, like the younger ones, and they end up on Social Security. But some bright civil servant has probably worked out that it's cheaper to extend the pension age than to reduce it.
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eyesopen
Posted: 02 February 2012 17:09:02(UTC)
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Joined: 16/12/2011(UTC)
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Dennis - welcome to the real world - if you'r in industry, and redundant at 60, when you apply for a job, nobody mentions your age, but when they find out how old you are everyone goes very silent.
You never hear from them again.
As for age related legislation - hahahahahahahah
If you have any pension, find a good interesting hobby and enjoy life.
It certainly opened my eyes.
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clarkkent
Posted: 02 February 2012 17:41:59(UTC)
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My wife and I ran our own business during our 50s and we certainly found out how much we were worth, and the answer was, not a lot. We did however make some good property investments and managed to retire at 60.
We are not marvelously well off, but comfortable. Share dealing has now become a profitable hobby for me, so it's never too late to get the brain in gear and try something new.
I think that in many cases, overpayment is proportional to the power of your union what ever your age and golden handshakes proportional to the gravity of your failure.
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dd on 03/02/2012(UTC)
dd
Posted: 03 February 2012 08:36:58(UTC)
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Maybe some over 50s are overpaid, but not all. It depends upon the skill/expertise they have to offer. However, there is absolutely no doubt that ageism exists and an excuse will always be found not to employ the older candidate.
There is also the fact that some do not like to hear the "we tried it 15 years ago and it didn't work", however true it is. They would rather reject the person who says it.
There is also the fact that some (not all) young people have been educated to believe that the world owes them a living because they have achieved a degree in needlework.
Age 50+ is an excellent time to start your own business if you are fortunate enough to have a product to sell. Experience counts. Yes, setting up on your own will be a testing time. (I know, I'm doing it). Despite all the negativity in the news, I have found many others of all types who have useful businesses to develop. It is an exciting time but you have to get out and make things happen.
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Dennis .
Posted: 03 February 2012 10:05:49(UTC)
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My premise that over 50's are overpaid largely reflects my experience of a lot of people in larger companies especially where people in their 50's have a lot to lose if they lose their job . They have probably been in the company for many years, have managed to gain some seniority managing a group of people, may be members of DB pension schemes etc and generally become time servers. They will have been effectively deskilled by their employer such that they have become highly paid administrators but can't do much else other than update an excel spreadsheet and handle staffing problems. This becomes apparent when they leave the organisation and try to write a CV and they have to write down key skills.

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dd
Posted: 03 February 2012 10:16:24(UTC)
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Ah, yes. The DB pension scheme certainly increases employment costs but then I suppose the question is whether the DB pension is deferred or is being paid from an early age and how many years have been completed.
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Peter Rowland
Posted: 29 April 2012 13:00:27(UTC)
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Joined: 01/01/2012(UTC)
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Gosh, this is an upbeat, positive thread for those of us approaching 50. Still the message isn't lost on us and I think the real answer is to work for yourself if you fall into this trap.
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Mark22
Posted: 30 April 2012 07:31:33(UTC)
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The two messages in this thread are:

1. Know what you are actually worth in the job market so it isn't a shock if you find that you're paid more than you're worth (just be grateful); and
2. Know what you want as an income so if the opportunity presents itself to get that without the stress of working in an organisation you don't like, you can take it.

Look on the bright side ;-)
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Roger Bacon
Posted: 30 April 2012 07:42:49(UTC)
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Joined: 04/04/2007(UTC)
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People of over 50 tend to be overpaid becasue of the tradition that yone must climb the tree. That usually means being promoted beyond one's level of competence into a "managerial" role. Manging is difficult, very difficult and older people think they can do it just because they have "experience" . We need a system in which its fine to be an "expert" in a field without needing to be "in charge" of people. Younger experts then learn from the older ones both socially and technically. By the way does anyone understand why most younger people think that retired people did nothing to earn their pensions, that they just arrived at no cost at retirement.
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