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Is BSkyB potentially another Kodak?
Dennis .
Posted: 26 January 2012 11:01:05(UTC)
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I remember a long time ago being told by someone from a major electronics company that things that move need to be connected by radio and things that don't should be connected by wires. Despite this most telephones used to be connected by fixed line and most TVs by TV aerials. Things have now changed and most phones are mobile and more and more TVs are being connected by cable and internet including ADSL broadband. As the demand for personalised data increases I believe that the satellite TV model will become unsustainable as it is fundamentally based on delivering the same content to lots of people simultaneously. Therefore unless BSkyB starts delivery by broadband it will eventually be overtaken by the likes of BT and Virgin with fibre optic to the home. So is this another Kodak in the making? ie start shorting BSkB shares?
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Mitcho Iankov on 28/01/2012(UTC)
Justaguygettingby
Posted: 26 January 2012 12:47:22(UTC)
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In a word no. Why?

Neither BT nor Virgin make content.

And all the broadbandwidth in the world is hopeless if you've nothing to watch or engage with.

SKY invests in the content that it knows people want to watch. So even if it doesn't ultimately deliver the service to you, does it matter if it charges the people who do?
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AA on 26/01/2012(UTC), LouisV-W4 on 30/01/2012(UTC)
AA
Posted: 26 January 2012 12:58:21(UTC)
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Sky is already offering content through broadband and is about to expand spectrum of these products enormously.

However, analogy to Kodak is nothing less than utterly stupid. Not only bandwidth available on satellite is substantially greater than broadband, broadband can still not reach many areas. Liberalisatin of regulation on satellite broadcast will allow satellite to improve wider availability of braodband.

Cable will gradually die.
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LouisV-W4 on 30/01/2012(UTC)
ennui
Posted: 26 January 2012 13:07:35(UTC)
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I am inclined to agree but I wouldnt be shorting BSkyB as they have plenty of time to react. Speaking from personal experience though I am currently in an area that doesnt have virgin fibre optic so I cant use them for TV, and cant get all of the Freeview channels, which means BT isnt an option either so I am consequently a Sky user. Come March that changes as I will be able to get full Freeview connectivity. In turn that means I will switch my phone, TV and broadband over to BT. The benefit of doing this for me is that there will be more TV on demand ie stuff I and my family actually want to watch when I want to watch it, and I wont be paying for the hundreds of channels of drivel that Sky seem happy to promote. They may produce content but 100% of it is tosh. I think as the economic downturn bites more and more people will review what they are paying every month to Sky and look for cheaper options, particularly when competitors can offer more of what you want rather than less. On demand is clearly the future so yes, unless Sky changes the model they have a problem. I must confess to being slightly biased, and possibly slightly unusual for the average sky customer in that I was absolutely disgusted by the phone hacking saga and have had enough of giving my money to Mr Murdoch's family so that has also been a factor in my decision to change, plus I am not a huge sports fan, where Sky have you by the short and curlies. However my understanding is that people like google and Virgin are beginning to look at that market so Sky's monopoly is unlikely to last.
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Mitcho Iankov on 28/01/2012(UTC)
cc
Posted: 26 January 2012 13:21:25(UTC)
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Like "ennui" we now live in an area where cable is unlikely to be installed, so all the inhabitants of this city are really tied to satellite or limited to Freeview's small offering.

Although I don't particularly want to subscribe to any part of the Murdoch empire, the Sky TV service really is better than the alternatives here. I agree that much of Sky's own output is garbage but there's an extensive range of channels, many of which are watchable, and more films available even if you do not make extra subscriptions. Our telephone is also cheaper through Sky and the unlimited broadband is relatively cheap - at the moment.

I would prefer cable TV - but Sky is the only available service for many people. And without cable we are unlikely to get good enough broadband for an acceptable computer based service - particularly if we are at the end of a long line from the nearest exchange.
AA
Posted: 26 January 2012 14:09:09(UTC)
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Sky Anytime+ and Sky Go products are content on demand and anywhere you please and are currently available from BSkyB that is not a part of "Murdoch Empire".

Sky is bound by Oftel rules to supply the hundreds of channels on the Astra platform.

Satellite is a superior medium than broadband and once liberalised merits will be appreciated better.
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LouisV-W4 on 30/01/2012(UTC)
Dennis .
Posted: 26 January 2012 14:38:43(UTC)
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I agree that as ever "Content is King" after all the BBC is a content company yet it started out having to build the transmitters etc but now delivers content via lots of different routes (even in print) and hardly anyone knows the name of the outfit that runs the terrestrial transmitters (Arqiva actually). My argument is not about content but the delivery mechanism.
My point in starting this thread was about the fact that as people demand more personalised content eg Youtube it becomes more and more difficult to deliver this via satellite eg how do you service say 20+ million households/TVs/ people wanting individual streaming services? With fibre this is easily possible given the enormous potential data capacity (and yes I know not everyone has it) with satellite you are left with how many transponders on the satellite are available and what is the latency as you wait for your data packet to arrive out of the enormous multiplexed signal, oh and transponders are expensive to rent which is why Sky analogue was got rid of as soon as possible. Also think of the backchannel issues for the return signal, Sky currently connects to the phone line for the reverse traffic so why not send the TV down that route instead, paying BT might be cheaper than satellite provider (perhaps that's their long term plan)?

I must admit to not having Sky and living in an area with only 4 TV stations and I never watch sport.
ennui
Posted: 26 January 2012 15:24:24(UTC)
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The point here isnt that Sky offer on demand services. So do Channel 4, ITV, Channel 5 and the BBC. The issue is whether you access those services via BT, Virgin or Sky. Over the last decade Sky has built up a franchise based on offering 100's of channels that werent previously available, then offering Sky+ then offering HD. That model is now being superseded by an internet piped on demand model. No one really cares whether you access content via satellite, wirelessly, or via cable so long as it all works, and all the providers will work to see that it does. The issue is overwhelmingly one of packaging appropriate content, ease of use and cost. At the moment Sky look vulnerable but this doesnt mean to say that will always be the case. Should they for example integrate on demand content from other providers into their boxes then they may get somewhere. This is the area where BT and Virgin are way ahead, not because they are geniuses but because it has been the only way for them to compete.

And the last time I checked BskyB are very much part of the Murdoch empire with Newscorp owning a controlling stake, thus rendering them odious in multiplicitous ways. None of this means BskyB are doomed, its just not quite as rosy an environment for them as they might have you believe.
Dennis .
Posted: 26 January 2012 18:58:45(UTC)
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Thanks everyone for their comments, it has helped me clarify the issue which is whether
long term, the satellite delivery system for Sky will eventually be dispensed with. Incidentally this was being discussed ten years ago in media conferences but it's a long term issue.

PS there is an interesting sort of parallel issue with ClassicFM ie will they change their name when the analoge FM radio system is closed down? By rights they should be called ClassicPQM when they go digital (Phase Quadrature Modulation) but it doesn't roll of the tonge so easily.
alan franklin
Posted: 27 January 2012 09:03:52(UTC)
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I have the total Sky package and find the choice is fantastic.Without the pioneer investment and initiative of the Murdochs this wouldn't have been available.

Remember the old 3/4/5 channel days? Replacing that was Rupert Murdoch's big achievement and he put his whole empire on the line to do it. Nobody else could have pulled this off, certainly not risk-averse corporates. It needed one man with a big vision and loads of experience. And I'm not even a fan of his! But that is the truth.
However, we also have NTL (unwisely renamed Virgin after the sleazy empire of Branson) and we also have TalkTalk.

NTL, the name I will continue to use for my e-mail account,offers a vastly superior product for broadband and there is no arguing with this. We run websites and need fast connectivity.
So when a Sky salesman rang me this week, to offer phones and broadband, I said no - a service sent down BT's old copper cables is nowhere near good enough.I haven't the time or patience to wait for images to appear on screen......

He said Sky is doing an experiment somewhere with new fibre-optic cables. I said: "Come back to me when you can offer fast broadband, with reliable delivery, and we will talk if you are cheaper than NTL." Our son unwisely switched to Sky for broadband and it is far from excellent. It depends how far you are from one of BT's junction boxes, as I understand it.
Meanwhile NTL also throw in a phone for only £3 a month extra, so we have a backup phone.

We use TalkTalk for our main fixed line phone as they do a great deal which gives us unlimited "free" calls to America and cheap foreign calls elsewhere. Terrific! Don't like the company - I recently reported them to ther regulator for constantly harrassing me with sales calls, despite the fact that we are ex-directory and registered for no sales calls.

However, we don't have to love our suppliers or the people who run them. Just go for the best deal and technical excellence.
Dennis .
Posted: 27 January 2012 09:50:32(UTC)
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Alan, fine comments but Kodak in it's day was one of the world's most respected companies and produced fine products. Cunard was the best way to cross the atlantic before cheap jet travel destroyed their business model (now into cruising but that's another story). Nokia started out as a forestry and paper company diversified into phones but now has major survival problems from the likes of HTC and Apple.
With Apple and Google moving into TV I see another disconnect coming in broadcast TV delivery as the world moves towards narrowcast although it does require fibre everywhere to do the job properly (which could take some time).


PS I live in an area where you can't even get channel 5 (we do have colour though). Evidently the thing nowadays is to become TV snob by not having one at all but I haven't gone that far yet.
Dennis .
Posted: 31 January 2012 09:35:40(UTC)
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What was I saying about the future of satellite broadcast?

From today's FT
January 31, 9:22am
BSkyB joins battle for internet TV subscribers
British Sky Broadcasting Group has stepped up its battle against online movie providers Lovefilm and Netflix with the launch of an internet TV service, as subscriber growth among the pay-TV group's traditional viewer base slows.
Hmmmmm
Posted: 31 January 2012 13:29:40(UTC)
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I too have left Sky primarily due to Murdoch involvement, but also because I dont agree with:
- BBC (ie licence payers) having to pay BSkyB to transmit BBC programmes(!)
- Having to pay Sky a monthly fee to watch channels that have advertising on them! (Either fee or ads, not both, please)
- Only being able to get film channels if you pay for the dross channels as well
- Having to pay Sky extra to get HD channels, even free-to-air HD channels (and still getting advertisments)

I think Sky will get hit if/when an on-demand service offers a good selection of content at a reasonable price: somewhere around £10-20 per month.


Spartacus
Posted: 04 February 2012 20:36:18(UTC)
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AA;13628 wrote:
Sky is already offering content through broadband and is about to expand spectrum of these products enormously.


Content is easily bought in, even much BBC content is outsourced.


AA;13628 wrote:

However, analogy to Kodak is nothing less than utterly stupid.


Speaking as a telecoms engineer, I think you're being somewhat harsh on the OP. He's thinking 10+ years ahead - technology such as multi-cast is being rolled out onto the internet, this could well knock satellite TV of it's perch.



AA;13628 wrote:

Cable will gradually die.


Any engineer or physicist will tell you that signals prefer wire to the air, why do you think your landline offers better speech than your mobile?
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Dennis . on 04/02/2012(UTC)
Fred
Posted: 06 February 2012 12:29:52(UTC)
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Alan, I take great exception to you labelling Richard Branson sleazy.It does nothing to support your views, nor does it offer anything of value to this otherwise fascinating exchange of views. You are hiding behind the relative obscurity offered by the internet to make your unfounded comments. He is obviously twice the person you will ever be!
Dennis .
Posted: 06 February 2012 13:05:45(UTC)
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Richard Barnson is a very hard nosed business man despite his laid back public persona.
Spartacus
Posted: 06 February 2012 19:46:11(UTC)
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Dennis .;13730 wrote:
Richard Barnson is a very hard nosed business man despite his laid back public persona.


He also spent a night in jail and was fined £60,000 by customs for trying to swindle them back in 1971. Very naughty...
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