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what to do? retirement at 45
Oldtime Investor
Posted: 01 June 2018 19:57:06(UTC)
#22

Joined: 12/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4

Wake up from your dreamland, get your feet on the ground and get to work. Why should the rest of us have to keep you on state benefits when your money runs out? At about 75-80, with another 20 years to go probably. 25 work years to fund 55 retirement years? The sums don’t add up. Start with minimum Care Costs of £800 p.w for perhaps 5 years and work back from there.
King Lodos
Posted: 01 June 2018 20:10:44(UTC)
#23

Joined: 05/01/2016(UTC)
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I basically quit full-time work when journalism sank .. I never lost my job – just all the editors I worked for did .. They went from salaried jobs to freelancing – which basically means scraping by on whatever bits of copywriting they get.

Lot of drinking, smoking and unmarried people looking at uncertain futures .. I always knew the money would disappear, so I always saw investing as the long-game.

If it's depression, drinking too much, the mid-life crisis, the needing a change .. I don't think that gets easier away from work .. I often envy people in 9-5 because it gives you a simple structure; responsibility; and time off means something .. The worst thing about not having to work for a living is you don't get 'weekends' anymore .. I miss Friday afternoons.


I've got a friend whose business brings in about £250k, but to all intents and purposes he's 'unemployed' – trying to find something to do with himself .. My first business, clothing retail, turned over a few £thousand a week – but the work was mostly packing envelopes, like a 16-year-old on work experience.

I guess what I'm getting at, and making big assumptions, is the search for meaning doesn't go away when you've got money .. Sometimes the opposite – because meaning mostly comes from having responsibilities .. That's why I'd be careful with the concept of 'retirement' .. Really the whole point of life is to find that thing that compels you, that you'd sacrifice your freedom and wellbeing for, and go after it .. Chapter 4 of 12 Rules for Life is one of the best things I've ever read on this – they should teach it every school
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charley
Posted: 01 June 2018 20:53:20(UTC)
#26

Joined: 27/04/2008(UTC)
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Lol!! Thank you for your thoughts! !!
1 user thanked charley for this post.
King Lodos on 01/06/2018(UTC)
Jon Snow
Posted: 01 June 2018 23:19:11(UTC)
#24

Joined: 02/03/2014(UTC)
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King Lodos;63273 wrote:
I basically quit full-time work when journalism sank .. I never lost my job – just all the editors I worked for did .. They went from salaried jobs to freelancing – which basically means scraping by on whatever bits of copywriting they get.

Lot of drinking, smoking and unmarried people looking at uncertain futures .. I always knew the money would disappear, so I always saw investing as the long-game.

If it's depression, drinking too much, the mid-life crisis, the needing a change .. I don't think that gets easier away from work .. I often envy people in 9-5 because it gives you a simple structure; responsibility; and time off means something .. The worst thing about not having to work for a living is you don't get 'weekends' anymore .. I miss Friday afternoons.


I've got a friend whose business brings in about £250k, but to all intents and purposes he's 'unemployed' – trying to find something to do with himself .. My first business, clothing retail, turned over a few £thousand a week – but the work was mostly packing envelopes, like a 16-year-old on work experience.

I guess what I'm getting at, and making big assumptions, is the search for meaning doesn't go away when you've got money .. Sometimes the opposite – because meaning mostly comes from having responsibilities .. That's why I'd be careful with the concept of 'retirement' .. Really the whole point of life is to find that thing that compels you, that you'd sacrifice your freedom and wellbeing for, and go after it .. Chapter 4 of 12 Rules for Life is one of the best things I've ever read on this – they should teach it every school


I still hate Sundays, that afternoon countdown to early bed for the early start, going to somewhere to talk to idiots about nothing important.

Just because they think it's macho to have a management meeting at 07:00, "that will send a strong message to our teams" - Yawn.

That's why I work for myself, I decided I was unemployable.

On purpose and motivation, Mazlov hierachy of needs sums things up pretty well -

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Just checking the rules of life, ch 4...

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Jon Snow
Posted: 01 June 2018 23:43:21(UTC)
#21

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DJLW;63267 wrote:
I stopped working at 47 a couple of years ago and also have a Spanish and London base. My orginal plan was to retire at 50 but opportunity presented itself earlier. Some of my thoughts and observations are as follows:

1) Best you avoid the word retirement for a while, well meaning people will be traumatised for you and will worry that your life will become a vacuous non existence not validated by having a job. You may well suffer terrible issues and struggle to cope but that’s your own issue to manage and from what you say re hobbies activities etc. I doubt it.

2) Money question or how long will you live question. You allude (I think, sorry if that was not your intention) to having health issues so you may consider your life expectancy is on the lower side of the average. Ultimately none of us know how long we will live and you will always find a a rationale to believe you need more money to retire. I guess the main issue for me when mulling the same issue was whether I was throwing away my peak earning years and might not be able to earn again later in life. I think you and other posters have already highlighted possible future income stream oppotunities and this combined with you lower expenditure should mean you are OK.

3) Tax residency etc. I will sleep easier knowing that I am observing rules 183 days in London to be Tax resident etc. Plenty of others have ignored the rules without problem for many years. Ultimately their ability to do this (in my opinion) is only likely to decrease with increased data collection sharing and analysis by relevant authorities.

The Portugal NHBR that someone has already mentioned is something I am looking into but it may not work for you if you already have an established Spain base and don´t want to change it.

4) I am guessing that you are ordering a Caña when at the bar in Spain otherwise I am intrigued to know what they bring you when you ask for a Canu.

Buena Suerte with whatever you decide,


Pequenas
Mallorca
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DJLW on 02/06/2018(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 02 June 2018 01:20:55(UTC)
#25

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Jon Snow;63277 wrote:
I still hate Sundays, that afternoon countdown to early bed for the early start, going to somewhere to talk to idiots about nothing important.

Just because they think it's macho to have a management meeting at 07:00, "that will send a strong message to our teams" - Yawn.

That's why I work for myself, I decided I was unemployable.

On purpose and motivation, Mazlov hierachy of needs sums things up pretty well -

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Just checking the rules of life, ch 4...


Maslow's hierarchy's something that's stuck with me since school.

I read so many social sciences books – on motivation, changing habits, managing businesses, etc. but that Chapter 4 (Jordan Peterson book) actually changed my trajectory.

There's a Jung quote along the lines of "People don't see god because they're not looking low enough" .. We put so much energy into big plans .. From starting companies to writing novels, but it's so much easier not to pursue them .. So they exist as mirages, for some distant future, or perhaps we might be able to muster a few hours a week – but very few of us are hurtling towards our goals .. I'd so often find myself trying to get to sleep, realising another year's gone and I'm no closer to any of these things – worrying that change isn't possible.

The essence is that you focus on the small things in front of you .. The pile of papers; the broken bookshelf; the email you've been putting off .. Little pockets of chaos – and every day you're restoring a little bit of order .. Within a year you might have done 3,000 tiny things that made life a fraction of a percent better; and like investing, that compounds faster than you think.

Really central to it is keeping it small, and rewarding yourself – you're normally a tyrant of a boss and an even worse employee – so "If you spend 15 minutes doing papers, you can reward yourself with a fresh coffee" .. When I want to treat myself in the day, I'll make a point to try and find something I can set in slightly better order first, and that's, oddly, an easy habit to get into .. And it was astonishing how quickly this added up into having a clean office, clean car, tidy garden, new marketing campaign for my business, learning a new language, new gym membership .. Half these things would've seemed like so much effort, I'd have genuinely thought I needed a PA to do them .. And oddly, days don't feel any busier .. The chapter takes the idea on a much richer tour, and is something I'll re-read regularly
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JimmyX77
Posted: 02 June 2018 09:36:33(UTC)
#27

Joined: 18/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2

Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I find this thread really interesting as I'm 46 and targeting a move to Thailand at 50. (My spouse is Thai which will help with life and administration issues, and our kids are all dual nationals). I daresay there's some overlap in our research and outlook.

I work in IT and I'm finding terrible ageism in selection. I've been working in Switzerland where they're allowed to ask your age. Even saw an advert for consultants stating that those over 40 shouldn't apply! Anyway what with Brexit uncertainty I'm digging my own escape tunnel to a different life. Turns out I've been fairly thrifty when I think back.

First off, the advice on checking the local rules on residency, taxation etc is spot on.

Second, the fact that you could maintain your UK business is really good. Consider paying yourself that 10k in a way that National Insurance is due. You might appreciate a full state pension in twenty odd years. But basically the 10k will prevent you eating into the nest egg for now and increase your safety margin.

The advice that you don't have enough money or the income you're planning is too low is spurious. Frankly most people in the UK don't have that income and they're paying rent or mortgages out of it.

My research about whether my own nest egg will last has benefited from the materials on
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ and retirement calculations at https://firecalc.com/

The firecalc site helps you work out if your withdrawal rate is realistic in a variety of economic climates and takes into account any state pensions you might get later. In my case I had a zero failure rate even assuming a life expectancy of 95. (Asset allocation is an important consideration here but not for this thread).

For healthcare I did some research and for me IMG Global looks like an interesting option.

It might be best not to think of this as retirement. You've achieving Financial Independence because you've earned it through work and thrift. However we do benefit mentally and physically from purpose. Maybe you'll write novels, or become an online poker ace, but the main thing is you've earned the right to choose!

The only slight fly in the ointment for me is schooling of my youngest. International schools in Thailand can be very expensive, but we have solutions and options there.

Final thoughts; leave yourself an escape route if you decide you don't like the life. You're aiming for a bright future - hope for the best but plan for the worst. Good luck!
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Theo Shackleton
Posted: 09 June 2018 08:32:42(UTC)
#28

Joined: 14/01/2018(UTC)
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Another great thread, and many fine pearls of wisdom shared. I am also a big fan of Jordan Peterson and have spent many hours enjoying his videos on YouTube.

Some thoughts I'd add, for what they're worth (I'm 35, so what do I know?) I won't be retiring for a few decades. The different points are really all interconnected rather than being separate.

- The grass is always greener. People in work can't wait to retire. Those who are retired miss the structure and purpose, and the connections with others that work can bring. I hate having the Sunday blues, and Tuesdays for some reason. But Friday evenings and Saturdays are great. I also think a lot of work can feel a bit meaningless. Much of the 'professional' type work - law, accountancy, that type of thing - are essentially made up activities. They only exist because regulations have been created. Many trades and jobs these days involve heavy regulation. I'm not suggesting that makes them pointless. But I do a 'professional' job myself and often feel a bit detached from my nature as a human animal - sitting in a battery farm, staring at a screen, and mulling over abstract and artifical processes and concepts. I some times look at bin men and feel a bit jealous. They are truly serving others. Can you imagine how impossible and disgusting life would be if they didn't show up at work for a while? Plus they get lots of physical exercise. Odd that they're considered the lowest of the low and get paid so little, but that's supply and demand for you.

- It's a very personal thing. What is meaningful to you and what do you enjoy? I work with people who, through delusion or otherwise, believe what we do is all very important. And that's probably good for them. I try to learn new things and do hobbies to compensate for my job. The essential ingredients - connection, creativity, purpose, goals, etc - can be realised through various activities.

- It's often a matter of balance. Two years of lying on the beach drinking rum and you could be bored stiff and have brain rot. I love to travel, and the longest journey so far was a 9 month trip through the Americas. It didn't involve sitting on any beaches. There was movement every day, lots of organisation to make the journey happen over massive distances. Lots of hiking, climbing, seeing, learning. It was a jolly, but there was definitely purpose and variety involved. Still, I was ready for a change by the end of it, and looked forward to working again, for the structure as much as anything else. Then, after about six months of work, I was sick of that again. Which leads me to...

- Variety. Unless you love a singular activity and are obsessed with it. Some people try to combine work with travel, or do a job that is a hobby. Tim Ferris's Four Hour Work Week is interesting. Over the last couple of years I've been doing shorter contracts and then traveling in between to try to break things up. By the time I'm getting sick of work it is time to leave and do something different, and vice versa.

- Self awareness. Do you truly understand your own mind and nature? This can help with decision making. For example, I am very introverted and can spend days at a time alone quite happily. I have friends who would kill themselves if they had to spend a week alone. I dream of living in the mountains as a sort of hunter gathering savage. Not to everybody's tastes. Knowing yourself can help define appropriate goals, activities, etc for YOU.

- Good mental and physical health. I tend to think the first one is the more important, but really health is a holistic thing. I encounter a lot of retired (and very wealthy in some cases) people in my work who seem to spend a lot of time hating their neighbours, wasting my time, and being bitter and bored. Maybe they'd be happier if they were emptying the bins? Maybe they have deep seated issues that remain unresolved and hold them back from feeling content, or even happy.

Another thing to bear in mind is that, statistically, almost all lottery jack pot winners end up miserable. There's a lesson in that somewhere, and one that probably wouldn't normally be mentioned on a forum all about money...
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