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iWeb not letting me trade some trusts
Robin Stone
Posted: 30 April 2018 19:45:02(UTC)
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Tried buying veil a couple weeks ago and oakley capital OCI today. Couldn’t buy either on iWeb. I liked them as flagged as a good discount and I did a bit of research and they looked ok. Spoke to iweb and they flagged mifid 2 and said these aren’t intended for retail investors.

I thought they were just shares so this was a surprise to me. Do other platforms allow these or are iWeb rightly protecting me from self harm? If they aren’t for retail investors should Citywire include them in the z score list?
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Malcolm Hartney on 08/05/2018(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 30 April 2018 20:20:08(UTC)
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Sounds like a lame made-up excuse. Both VEIL and OCI seem to be available on ATS and HL, and HL certainly has links to the new-look KID documents.

I get the impression the platforms have to do *some* work to support any given ticker code ('cos sometimes I've asked ATS to add ETFs). Maybe iWeb don't think these obscure things are worth the bother for the number of clients likely to want to invest in them.

I note OCI's KID includes (in the "Intended Retail Investor" section):

"The ordinary shares are listed on the AIM market of the London Stock Exchange and as such are intended for investors who understand and are willing to assume the potential risks of capital loss associated with investments in such companies, primarily institutional investors."

and VEIL

"Intended investors in the Company are institutional investors and professionally advised or knowledgeable private investors. An investment in the ordinary shares is only suitable for institutional investors and professionally advised or knowledgeable private investors who understand and are capable of evaluating the merits and risks of such an investment and who have sufficient resources to be able to bear any losses which may equal the whole amount invested that may result from such an investment. Furthermore, an investment in the ordinary shares should constitute part of a diversified investment portfolio."

which seem fairly typical to me. Be interesting if iWeb are raising the bar higher than other platforms seem to be.
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Robin Stone on 30/04/2018(UTC), dlp6666 on 01/05/2018(UTC)
Peter59
Posted: 30 April 2018 21:03:53(UTC)
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Similar issues with HSBC, I can`t buy any more 3IN or APAX. However, it`s probably making me look elsewhere for opportunities! It does look like brokers are making an active decision whether an IT is "appropriate" for a Private Investor instead of letting us decide. It might be worth making a complaint to the appropriate regulatory authority. Kiids are causing brokers some extra work and they`d rather just take the trading/platform fee.
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dlp6666 on 01/05/2018(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 01 May 2018 07:58:41(UTC)
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I have had problems with Hailifaxsharedealing as mentioned elsewhere on this Forum. I have complained that they appear to be make Investment decision for investors which I don't believe they have the Authority to make. In the case of UIL which is a SPLIT they are happy to trade the high risk ordinary but not one or two of the low risk Zeros.
Recently they stopped you from buying OCI( unlikely to go bust like carillon etc) as they believe should be for sophisticated investor etc (the underlying portfolio is managed by experts so no need to protect investors.....they seem happy to allow high risk trades in some AIM stocks etc.
I have registered a compliant but I don't think they understand fully the issues. I have had a long conversation with the Regulator and am looking at other ways of approaching the issues raised. I hold OCI with Halifaxs.....but will have to buy more via HL who seem to be dealing in most stocks correctly.
I intend to take this matter further as in my view these Companies have been making misjudgment.
4 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Tim D on 01/05/2018(UTC), Mr Helpful on 01/05/2018(UTC), Robin Stone on 01/05/2018(UTC), dlp6666 on 01/05/2018(UTC)
john_r
Posted: 01 May 2018 09:17:19(UTC)
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I too have had similar experiences with I-web. It seems they are running scared of the regulator and just not offering some investment trusts anymore. Not good for serious investors or I-web in my opinion.

Possibly this is a short term over reaction to earlier regulatory pressure when I believe some brokers were forced last year to reimburse retail investors if they had made losses on complex investments - such as warrants.
But It does seem crazy to clamp down on Investment trusts when they are generally less volatile than the individual shares they contain.
Hopefully it will all settle down soon.

In the meantime I have been using "You Invest" for all my Investment trust trades. They seem to have a good handle on the situation and I have not had any problems. I do remember signing a form several years ago saying that I considered myself an experienced private investor so perhaps this helps too.

Anyway they have a clear policy on risks described at :
https://www.youinvest.co...mplex-instruments-risks

(Not that I have ever considered an investment trust to be a complex instrument before).

t s
Posted: 01 May 2018 09:37:21(UTC)
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john_r;61549 wrote:
I too have had similar experiences with I-web. It seems they are running scared of the regulator and just not offering some investment trusts anymore. Not good for serious investors or I-web in my opinion.

Possibly this is a short term over reaction to earlier regulatory pressure when I believe some brokers were forced last year to reimburse retail investors if they had made losses on complex investments - such as warrants.
But It does seem crazy to clamp down on Investment trusts when they are generally less volatile than the individual shares they contain.
Hopefully it will all settle down soon.

In the meantime I have been using "You Invest" for all my Investment trust trades. They seem to have a good handle on the situation and I have not had any problems. I do remember signing a form several years ago saying that I considered myself an experienced private investor so perhaps this helps too.

Anyway they have a clear policy on risks described at :
https://www.youinvest.co...mplex-instruments-risks

(Not that I have ever considered an investment trust to be a complex instrument before).


iWeb have just stopped me withdrawing £34k of funds? What is going on?

Now sorted. Money transferred!
Mostly Retired
Posted: 01 May 2018 10:58:28(UTC)
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Now I am curious - I never thought I would "protected" from making my own decisions (even the stupid ones). I use Halifax and they state that they allow a choice from "400+" trusts.

As the AIC only lists 466, I thought I could trade anything I fancied -silly me. In fact the actual Halifax index list shows only 275 trusts, so it is now a curious piece of research to see which are not for me apparently.

Of course being suitable perverse (function of age I suspect) - I now want to know how they select which ones to exclude -even if I never thought of trading some of the apparently "banned" ones.

Having held several different FCA regulated positions (old style CF roles 1,3,17 and 29) and over 40 years financial markets experience I am probably too daft to be let loose with my own money :)
Mr Helpful
Posted: 01 May 2018 10:59:08(UTC)
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Hopefully as surmised just a temporary MIFID2/KID doc issue at iWeb.
Don't think they are setting out to block us deliberately.

Barclays SmartInvestor was slow off the mark frustratingly blocking various IT trades for a while; but now seem up to speed.

Interactive OK (so far).

iWeb maybe a lttle slower catching up perhaps; as evidenced by a KID document sent to us quite recently through the post for a past IT trade, presumably just to comply?
They wouldn't want to keep mailing out KID docs.
Big boy
Posted: 01 May 2018 10:59:24(UTC)
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John r.......most conventional Investment Trusts/Companies are low risk but some geared stocks sometimes referred to as SPLITs have more complex structures. The ordinary of UIL are highly geared and therefore risky whereas the ZEROs are low risk. It is therefore important to understand how the Trusts have been structured and the implications of gearing. Some/most of the Property Trusts having gearing which can be very troublesome in declining markets. Even though the revenue a/c has been full it can not be distubuted as it has to be diverted to surpport the Capital a/c.
Samual Saunders
Posted: 01 May 2018 11:31:05(UTC)
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Not having invested in other than ,funds, since starting my Sipp, I have been studying investment trusts and considering them as part of my portfolio. This now makes me think again as there seems to be that far greater caution is needed with ITs if platforms are ,managing, the investors selections and actions.

I have been happy with unit trusts oics etc, so perhaps I should stick with them even though my knowledge is not as good as it should be nvesting in stocks.

Sam
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Guest on 02/05/2018(UTC)
Mr Helpful
Posted: 01 May 2018 14:08:30(UTC)
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Samual Saunders;61558 wrote:
Not having invested in other than ,funds, since starting my Sipp, I have been studying investment trusts and considering them as part of my portfolio. This now makes me think again as there seems to be that far greater caution is needed with ITs if platforms are ,managing, the investors selections and actions.
I have been happy with unit trusts oics etc, so perhaps I should stick with them even though my knowledge is not as good as it should be nvesting in stocks.
Sam

Be careful not to let the tail wag the investment dog.
These are temporary difficulties due to officialdom gone beserk and platforms trying to catch up.

Suggest reading of John Baron's book 'Investment Trusts (Unlocking the City's Best Kept Secret)', before shutting the door on IT's.

Open ended and closed ended funds can each play a role in an investor's armoury, as so can Exchange Traded Funds.
2 users thanked Mr Helpful for this post.
Samual Saunders on 01/05/2018(UTC), Peter59 on 02/05/2018(UTC)
Dexi
Posted: 01 May 2018 15:00:45(UTC)
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Halifax seem to be reducing the choice for investors - first they said VCTs could no longer be bought,then it was a short ETF ( SUK2 ),most recently Picton property and a debt IT ( LBOW ) which can`t be bought....not sure what they are up to - no explanation ,as usual.
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Samual Saunders on 02/05/2018(UTC)
Samual Saunders
Posted: 01 May 2018 15:57:47(UTC)
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The door is not fully closed. I have downloaded the recent 'The Investment Trusts Handbook 2018' by Jonathan Davis and am slowly going through it.

It's just that there are comments to say that the IT's don't necessarily produce better returns than other funds, which I have been using since starting my Sipp.

I have just posted another question on Balance in the Retirement section here.
Sam
I M
Posted: 01 May 2018 16:38:48(UTC)
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I think it is more of a problem with iWeb/Halifax limiting what they will let you buy. They do the same with funds. Even well known funds like Lindsell Train Global Equity are not available. If you try to buy it you get the message "Following changes to FCA regulations, new investment in this share class is unavailable." In this case I think it is because they list the A class, which is inclusive, and do not list the B class. But why not? It has been like this for years.

I like the value for money of iWeb, but I'm glad I also have accounts with ii and HL, who both have a much wider range available
3 users thanked I M for this post.
Mr Helpful on 01/05/2018(UTC), Dexi on 02/05/2018(UTC), Guest on 02/05/2018(UTC)
Tom Bards
Posted: 01 May 2018 22:46:27(UTC)
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You get what you pay for I suppose.
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Samual Saunders on 02/05/2018(UTC)
mcminvest
Posted: 02 May 2018 11:15:59(UTC)
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Can't buy Linsdell Train on Halifax!! Joke!!
Robin Stone
Posted: 02 May 2018 11:57:10(UTC)
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I can get lindsell train on iWeb even with its eye watering Premium. Plus they let me buy carillion...

Decided to buy btem(British empire) so I can pay another overhead on oci who they bought a stake in...

I am probably getting redundancy so may diversify off iWeb with a chunk of that but clearly want low cost as a second platform. Anyone low cost offering full range of ITs? Was on iii years ago when I started investing and liked them but their quarterly fee introduction was huge relative to my ~1k investment.
I M
Posted: 02 May 2018 15:51:25(UTC)
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Robin
I also use iii. There is a fixed charge of £22.50 per quarter, but you get an equal amount of trading credits. The big change last year was that you can carry those forward so over a year you pay £90, but you have £90 of trading credits. If you do 9 buy or sells (£10 each) over the 12 months your account holding costs are effectively zero.

You can buy the investment trust (LTI) on iWeb, but you can't buy the Lindsell Train Global Equity fund. I wanted to buy the fund precisely because of the huge premium on LTI.
mcminvest
Posted: 02 May 2018 16:02:37(UTC)
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I enquired with Halifax about Lindsell Train Global Equity 'B' as to why they didn't have it to invest in.

Response:

"The fund is classed as 'dirty' fund which means it doesn't document its fees, we do not offer these funds"
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Big boy on 02/05/2018(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 02 May 2018 16:32:59(UTC)
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mcminvest;61630 wrote:
I enquired with Halifax about Lindsell Train Global Equity 'B' as to why they didn't have it to invest in.

Response:

"The fund is classed as 'dirty' fund which means it doesn't document its fees, we do not offer these funds"


Seems odd terminology and a lazy justification. ATS certainly have it ("LINDSELL TRAIN LTD LINDSELL TRAIN GLOBAL EQUITY INST B" / "7GGLOE"; 0.65% AMC and there's a new-style KIID available amongst the documents - which on ATS are accessed via Morningstar).
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