I joined the discussion on the basis that public expenditure should be transparent and it appeared that there was pressure to allocate funds from state resources for purposes which many people consider to be promoting a religeous faith. The Inland Revenue, for example, have rules concerning business expenditure which require this to be incurred wholely and exclusively for business purposes.

The edges appear to have been blurred concerning this issue. The notorious Duck House claimed as improvement expenditure is an example of blurred edges.

Faith and religeous practice are personal matters. The Vatican exists as a state to be at the centre of a religion. Could the Head of State privilages be reserved for Italy? That would be another forum.

The costs which come from public funds will reduce the services I and others receive from our elected National Government, National Executive (there's another forum) and Local Authority. That's the issue, State funds for State visits, Church funds for pastoral visits.

[Does the vatican have buildings, property, paintings, works of art, gold and silver, jewels and investments worth billions that came fron god knows where?] Yes, but like it or not the church needs an hq, and do run a church you need money. Great that this art work is in safe hands. Priests make a vow of chastity and poverty. Of course, they are only human so can fail as individuals on both counts very easily. That is down to individuals and it does not define the religious or moral principles of the church. Islam is the same.

[Did not the pope know about pedophiles for decades and just move them around to abuse more innocent children and to escape justice?] Get your facts into the context before making throwaway provocative statements. The church is about forgiveness and subsequent reform. They will try to let everyone find a way to start again. They do not condone the practice of paedophilia or any other sin. The church is not there for the saints, it is there for the sinners. It tries to get people to face their wrong doings and understand why they are wrong and to avoid repeats.
It is the responsibility of the law to physically protect the public.

[Does the pope give women equal rights?] Equal rights to what?! Rediculous question. Are you a bitter feminist by any chance?

Is he against condoms, when the majority of Catholics are sensibly using them?

[Do condoms help to fight against aids?] No. Contrived argument, and another ignorant misconception. They encourage promiscuity, and promiscuous behaviour dicourages condom use. The whole idea is to try to prevent promiscuity and create values.

[Do condoms stop unwanted pregnancy?] If they don't break.

[Can a woman be a priest?] What is the point? To help upset the vows of celibacy even more? Can a man have babies or suckle a child?

In Ireland his church moved a priest over the border from British Ulster to Catholic Eire to escape justice for killing 9 people in a bombing at Clady.

[Does the pope insist on making babies Catholics when they are a few weeks old?] Perhaps this should be left until the child can decide at an age of reason. These kind of laws are an interesting debate

[They don't then become Catholic, they are just children of the R.C. system of abuse.] Nonsense

[PRIESTS ARE ABOVE THE LAW! God is their only judge!] Not true

[Some bishops believe it is normal for their male priests to abuse girls, they are men after all.] Not true

[But to abuse boys is sinful as homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of god!] True.


Unfortunately, the church whether it be muslim, christian or jew is represented by imperfect humans in an imperfect world for the benefit of imperfect people like you and me. They are supposed to set an example which in the majority case they do. I think it is fair enough to be angry about the paedophilia etc. Anything self interested like that where someone else suffers is wrong, including abortion for example. The perpetrators are crucified by the public and will never recover in the eyes of the world. That damnation must be a significant sufferance from which they will get no respite. All the church (maybe incorrectly does, in my view) is perhaps try to give those individuals a chance for sorrow and reform. They do not encourage repeat performance of any wrong doing. Like I said, confession is not a meal ticket to repeat the wrong. ... a very common misconception.

Enough said.

This sentiments around the Popes visit are a disgrace to the concepts of religious tolerance.

There seems to be some sort of agenda first about being anti Islamic then anti Christian. I would much rather have either than have it replaced by the Television which is where most of those secular views seem to stem from.

While we used to be of Protestant Faith a large number of R.C's reside within these shores. As a nation we should RESPECT the Leaders of these great and grand Institutions. Instead in "true modern BRITISH fashion" the Media and the great unwashed seem to be loafing around trying to dig up muck about the Pope, or be outraged about a 12 Million pound bill. So what if it cost 12 or 24 million? It doe's not affect you nor I. Far more is wasted which goes unmentioned.

In regards to religion, it helps billions across the world in their daily lives and doe's more good than Bad.

And that's coming from a lapsed CoE follower.

The pope represents an organisation that has decimated other ancient cultures & religions.
He is head of an organisation that has supported paedophiles - how can this be good practice? He may have not actually committed the acts himself, but has condoned it, & prevented it from becoming public, thus denying many children a voice, & justice.

Unfortunately, as Marx stated, religion is the opiate of the masses, no doubt all those gathering to meet him are caught up in some hypnotic state of mind produced by their belief. One of the women interviewed about her decision to meet the pope, revealed that she actually believed she would benefit from the closeness, ie pope closer to god, therefore she hopes some of it will rub off on her - how deluded can one get?

In Africa, Christianity in its many forms, & Christians spreading the word of god, had a bible in one hand, & the gun in the other - it really astonishes me when I see black people worshipping at the altar of Christ - it is almost as if they have forgotten the betrayal of Christian ministries to indigenous peoples across the globe - it helps if you have a short memory or if you have no idea of what atrocities were committed in the name of Christ, who would never have sanctioned the behaviour of those who professed to carry His message to people (ie one of peace, humility, love of ones fellow human beings, etc). How does the Church reconcile itself to being partners in the slave trade?

If like sheep, you need a shepherd, at least use some of the brain cells gifted to you to make a decision based on truth - the Catholic Church is the last place you will find this!

David, perhaps because there are so many people who feel like you who might want to attack or do him worse harm. I can understand why victims of abuse in the context of the church feel agrieved, but what is more sinister is the hatred that surfaces in people regardless of the abuse issues. Even before this scandal there were cowards who did not respect the religious values of others in the UK, and use anti catholic venom to impale others because they don't like to be told that certain behaviors are incorrect. I went to see the pope in Scotland many years ago, it was great to be surrounded by kind hearted excited people in a crowd. I preferred that to the abuse I received at school aftwerwards for having gone to see him.

The secular society tells everyone that anything goes, and I can be pretty sure the paedophilia is more common place in many other circles than just church. Most people just hate to be told they are wrong.
All this banging on about homosexual rights is nausiating when you consider than anal sex is downright unhygenic and accounts for huge expenditure by the NHS to pay for std clinics where statisically 95 % of cases of HIV and other illnesses are homosexually transmitted, due to the higher promiscuity and hit rate activity with different partners. Be homosexual if you want, but I think the church won't tell you you are wrong, but the sex part is. The obvious point is this kind of sex is dangerous, and certainly repulsive to a virgin child. And some want equal rights for homosexual male couples to bring up a child. The church won't condone that....I wonder why! It is totally selfish on the part of the 'couple', to fulfil their own emptiness and satisfaction. If I was a child and saw an adult male looking at me in a funny way I would be very disturbed and maladjusted. So all these homosexual parades and banging on about equality is downright wrong. Makes my skin crawl to here homosexuals parading sex all the time while heterosexuals do not spend a fraction of the time.

Rose; "He is head of an organisation that has supported paedophiles" . I think you are wrong in the following sense.. whether or not this pope is culpable, the organisation you speak of has never supported paedophiles. Representatives have perhaps tarnished the brush, but they are human and subject to correction. I worry about where I would find the truth if I relied on some secular representative of society to "make a decision based on truth". Cetainly not my first port of call. And if I go to a church and don't think the priest is convincing, I go and find another who expresses himself better, or manages to say something that rings true, or I will not go at all.

Folks, please do what the hell you like with your lives but without some of the directives of the church you will probably carry on doing far worse than the catholic priests and on a bigger scale. This truth of course can be learned from other by good example, but not everyone has recourse to a good role model in life.

Don't expect the priests to be pure as God or Allah or whoever you worship. But do expect the church to at least face up to it's mistakes, which they are trying to do. The perpetrators deserve public justice just like anyone else would

So if we sinners do not follow the directives of a 'man made' church with all the faults we have listed, we will be worse than them!
I don't believe it! What are you on Dojr, I'm sure it's illegal.
I heard on the news concerning the Belgian paedophile priests that none of them will be defrocked! Once a paedophile, sorry ,priest, always a paedophile, sorry, priest. Jobs for the boys, nudge, nudge, wink, wink!
Have you read your bible recently? Read Genesis 19 for a strange, but not untypically immoral sexual story about biblical characters such as Lot and his daughter. Lot has male visitors ; some men call who want to 'know' them in the biblical sense. What does holy Lot say? Please leave these MEN alone and rape my two virgin daughters instead!
Judges 19 ,there is a similar story. Instead of an offer of two virgin daughters, the male callers who want sex are offered a concubine instead of MALES, whom they gang rape all night until she is dead. Charmingly moral biblical tale. I can see where the churches get their sexual morality. Stories like this are in the OLD TESTAMENT AND QURAN.
We are paying hard earned taxes to these people! Shiver me timbers!

The Vatican in super overdrive PR in colusion with the BBC Hacks who love all this BULL.... God spare me from The Catholic Church and the Cretinous BBC. Trying to tell me the POPE is the greatest mind ever in the VATICAN !! If handsome is as handsome does The Pope has left it a bit late to start. It is however his misfortune to be left sitting on top of an odourous pile which has got so big it can no longer be swept under the carpet and disinfected with incense.. Proffessor Starky is incensed with this visitation, I am bored to death with the old fool,who has been aware of the crimes in the Catholic Church for years and done and said nothing..Blair backed the wrong horse by joining the Catholics. I shall be mighty surprised to see him sitting along side St Peter., but then you never know he may put in a quivering plea for the lot of them