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It’s a shame, but we must cut back pensioners’ free bus passes
Weegie wean
Posted: 02 January 2011 19:28:20(UTC)

Joined: 25/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 4

Well said BB
Ines
Posted: 03 January 2011 00:46:44(UTC)

Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 44

Jonathan - I had a look at the video - and I was already aware of the exponential function and the famous game of chess. I'm not entirely sure it is applicable to populations in the same way that it is applicable to fuel supplies etc, as some of the population is going to die and although our lives seem to be getting longer exponentially I don't think we are about to see people living indefinitely. As is pointed out on the site, fuel consumption in the US did not continue to increase exponentially so maybe that is a characteristic of the real world as opposed to the theoretical world. The possible exponential nature of bank CDO's etc is another thing to think about.

I had a look at the ONS but there is too much to wade through - but I am aware in general terms that places like Japan which have low birth rates and an ageing population are considered to have a problem - maybe that isn't true.

I take your point as to why so many boys end up called Mohammed or similar, but I'm not convinced that we are not seeing a big cultural change because of the demographics of the Muslim community vis a vis other sections of society.
Jonathan
Posted: 03 January 2011 01:31:49(UTC)

Joined: 09/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 83

Ines, The exponential function is in the video to illustrate world population growth which will increase exponentially until something comes along to limit it. World oil production will follow a Hubbert Curve (similar to the normal distribution) and so decrease after"peak oil" which we may have already reached certainly in terms of production per person. In the US oil production is already well down the downward slope of the Hubbert curve and it illustrates how world production will decrease in the future. It also illustrates that modern agriculture is basically turning oil into food so when there is a large population and oil production reduces there will be big problems trying to feed everyone. Regarding bank CDOs no doubt the Bank of England can print as much money as is required to bail any bank out of any trouble so long as no one minds Zimbabwe style devaluation and inflation.

You probably got the Mohammed names statistic from headline written to be taken out of context to make people think the country is overrun with Muslims. I think less 5% of the population in the UK are to Muslims but they do also have a higher birth rate than the rest of the population so that combined with immigration will no doubt increase it. If you count actual names rather than variants Oliver would be the top name. Maybe we should ban all these crazy religions from the middle east, including Christianity?
Ines
Posted: 03 January 2011 14:26:26(UTC)

Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 44

Nicely provocative, and of course as a Christian I don't agree. As I'm sure you are aware, Christ condemned violence and promoted tolerance and love - something many Christians find hard to practise but nevertheless on reading the Gospels you can see what he preached. Mohammed has/had a completely different message.

However, the most dangerous 'religions' are/have been the secular religions of Marxism and Social Darwinism - think of the number of people who died because of Communism in China, Cambodia, the Soviet Union etc, the people who were killed by Social Darwinism (WW 2 Germany).

Man's inhumanity to man is appalling - but the idea of looking after other people kindly regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, gender, age, religion or intellectual ability derives from Christ - including the idea that it is good for one of the poorest sections of society to have a free bus pass.
Jonathan
Posted: 03 January 2011 15:34:47(UTC)

Joined: 09/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 83

Ines, The bible is a big book and I'm sure it also promotes other things like an eye for an eye etc... If you go elsewhere in the world you might find that the main recollections of Christianity are to the crusades which were not exactly peaceful. Anyway it was meant as a joke to remind us where Christianity comes from which is not very far from where Islam originates.
Ines
Posted: 03 January 2011 18:06:40(UTC)

Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 44

Jonathan, the Bible is a collection of books, dating from different times - the Old Testament in general relating to the history of the Jews and the New Testament to Christianity. It is not a handbook and it does not promote 'an eye for an eye' per se, although this seems to have been part of the early law of the Jews. Christ condemned the concept of retaliation of this kind - to find out more I strongly recommend the books by William Barclay, he is hugely informative about the background to both Judaism and Christianity and the Middle Eastern roots from which they, and Islam developed. It is interesting to learn that the meteorite around which Muslims gather in Mecca was being worshipped pre-Mohammed and he could not persuade them to give it up so had to incorporate it into his religion. Which of course brings us back to bus passes.
Jonathan
Posted: 03 January 2011 18:34:35(UTC)

Joined: 09/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 83

Ines, I had no idea that Mecca was built around the site of a Meteorite. You might be interested to learn about the origins of Christianity and how Christ is though to be the successor to the Egyptian god of the Sun 'Horus' and that after every 2,160 years (1/12th of an astronomical great year [25,920 years]) there is a new astrological age the previous being the Aries, current being Pisces (hence the fish sign for Christians) and the next Aquarius (in about 2150AD), all these are related to astrological events. Including Christmas which was originally a pagan celebration around the winter solstice and Christ's birthday was made to fit with this date event though they believed he was born in March/April. A lot of what's written in the bible is based on traditions/myths/stories that go back though many previous iterations in different religions right back to when people observed astronomical happenings in ancient Egyptian times.
Ines
Posted: 03 January 2011 19:03:30(UTC)

Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 44

Jonathan, back to bus passes!
Jonathan
Posted: 03 January 2011 19:16:19(UTC)

Joined: 09/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 83

Sorry, bus passes are just not as interesting as religion politics and money :) My point is I can't see why it costs so much to have pensioner travelling non-peak when the buses would just be running empty instead. Maybe the council are paying the bus companies too much for the pensioner free travel and they need to threaten to remove it to be able to bargain/negotiate better rates.
Alfred Vick
Posted: 04 January 2011 16:21:16(UTC)

Joined: 24/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14

Ines - I would like to commence reading the works of William Barclay, but he was such a prolific writer that I do not know where to begin. I would very much appreciate your advice in this regard. Now back to bus passes!.
Laura Sommer
Posted: 04 January 2011 20:42:55(UTC)

Joined: 02/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3

I completely agree, Ines :)
Ines
Posted: 05 January 2011 00:17:23(UTC)

Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 44

Alfred Vick - There are a lot of them, but you can get them second hand from Abe books. I began with the commentary on Mark and I am currently reading the commentary on John, also very interesting. You might be able to order from the library - putting the bus pass to good use if you have one! :)
Jonathan
Posted: 05 January 2011 00:52:26(UTC)

Joined: 09/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 83

Ines, Some things Jesus said that are no exactly condemning violence and promoting tolerance and love:

Matthew 10:21-23 - "Brothers and sisters will betray one another and have each other put to death. Parents will betray their own children, and children will turn against their parents and have them killed. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

Matthew 10:34-39 - "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."

Matthew 19:12 He seems to ask his follower to castrate themselves for the kingdom of heaven: - "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Matthew 5:29-30 - Asks them to pluck out their eyes: - "If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

Luke 14:26-27 - Tells people they cannot follow him unless they hate their relatives - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters yes - even their own life - such a person cannot be my disciple. "

Anyway back to bus passes!
Ines
Posted: 05 January 2011 08:32:02(UTC)

Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 44

Jonathan - Matthew's Gospel is very interestingly discussed by Willaim Barclay. Cheers! Ines
Alfred Vick
Posted: 05 January 2011 12:02:27(UTC)

Joined: 24/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14

Ines - thank you - I must visit my local library before it is sold off to Burger King - or whatever.
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