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Investing 50K
Investor2017
Posted: 20 November 2017 15:27:41(UTC)
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Hi,

I have a simple question;

How would you invest 50K in the current global economic situation for long-term (15-20yrs)?

Thanks
Tom Mozy
Posted: 20 November 2017 15:31:49(UTC)
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100% UK smaller companies. Brexit is going to create a boom in the UK!
Investor2017
Posted: 20 November 2017 15:33:12(UTC)
#3

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Why do you think so Tom?
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Freddy4Skin on 20/11/2017(UTC)
Ludditeme
Posted: 20 November 2017 15:59:44(UTC)
#4

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Irony?
King Lodos
Posted: 20 November 2017 16:13:27(UTC)
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It depends on your aims.

The simplest would be to invest 80% in Vanguard Lifestrategy 80, and 20% in RIT Capital Partners.

What I like about Vanguard as a long-term holding is it will always adapt to what's going on in the world .. So if India's the new superpower by then, you'll be holding more India – you can't really go wrong .. And RIT diversifies you with alternative assets and active management

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Tim D on 20/11/2017(UTC), Bellabeck on 20/11/2017(UTC), gillyann on 26/11/2017(UTC), Rickenbacker Al on 26/11/2017(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 20 November 2017 16:18:25(UTC)
#6

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I would invest £10k in each of 5 ITs. Global, global small caps, asia-pacific, UK small caps, and Europe.
3 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
john brace on 20/11/2017(UTC), william barnes on 26/11/2017(UTC), laang lee on 29/11/2017(UTC)
Tom Mozy
Posted: 20 November 2017 19:15:16(UTC)
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I'm an optimist on brexit, so with a 20 year time frame uk smaller companies should kill ftse 100 giants.

Don't go 100% into anything, that's just daft but I'm overweight smallers in my IT portfolio
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Captain Slugwash on 20/11/2017(UTC)
guy Richards
Posted: 26 November 2017 09:25:37(UTC)
#8

Joined: 26/11/2017(UTC)
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Kieth Colby. I agree with you but which IT would you favour?
Geoff James2
Posted: 26 November 2017 09:27:42(UTC)
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um...

You can't decide to invest £50K for 20 years without also considering your other investments, attitude to risk, earnings, tax implications and potentially your estate planning.

Ideally you would get the £50K into a tax wrapper. Depending upon your situation this may lead you toward SIPPs, ISAs, VCTs, EISAs, or NSI bonds. You can then focus on the asset class etc within the wrapper (within the various boundaries)
Geoff
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Micawber on 26/11/2017(UTC), laang lee on 29/11/2017(UTC)
Micawber
Posted: 26 November 2017 10:43:35(UTC)
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Geoff James2;53673 wrote:
um...

You can't decide to invest £50K for 20 years without also considering your other investments, attitude to risk, earnings, tax implications and potentially your estate planning.

Ideally you would get the £50K into a tax wrapper. Depending upon your situation this may lead you toward SIPPs, ISAs, VCTs, EISAs, or NSI bonds. You can then focus on the asset class etc within the wrapper (within the various boundaries)
Geoff

...and also how active you intend to be in managing the investments from year to year. Hard to make picks now that will be good for twenty years.

This kind of exercise is a bit like phantasy sports teams etc. and I'm not keen on that either, other than to pass the time,
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Geoff James2 on 26/11/2017(UTC)
william barnes
Posted: 26 November 2017 11:34:10(UTC)
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For simplicity I agree with Keith Cobby a good spread of investment trusts as he explained. No need to complicate a simple question.If he wanted other things taken into account these would of been mentioned in initial question.
Geoff James2
Posted: 26 November 2017 11:39:05(UTC)
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william barnes;53681 wrote:
For simplicity I agree with Keith Cobby a good spread of investment trusts as he explained. No need to complicate a simple question.If he wanted other things taken into account these would of been mentioned in initial question.


Me thinks it is often a route to failure when we assume what someone else knows by what they don't say.
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Freddy4Skin on 26/11/2017(UTC)
Alan Selwood
Posted: 26 November 2017 16:06:43(UTC)
#13

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When choosing investments, it's always best to start by asking what you want and need from life during and at the end of the next 20 or 30 years.

Then what your attitude to risk is (both tolerance of up and down movements in your capital and how much you can cope with in the way of losses of purchasing power in the short/medium/long term). (Could you accept falls of 1%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50%, 75% without going into a panic?)

Then your current tax position and how you expect that to change. (Will you move up or down a tax bracket, and if so when).

Will you receive any large amounts of money in the future? (Inheritance? Retirement lump sum? Sale of house? etc). Will you have any large payments of capital to make? (Purchase of house, car; divorce settlement; or whatever). Will you have any large increases in expenditure from income? (such as paying for a relative to be in a nursing home, new life assurance premiums, new or increased mortgage, child at university, etc).

Once the basics like this are listed, you should ask yourself how much cash you need on hand to deal with known capital expenditure, possible loss of job or earnings, etc.

Then try to split the remaining amount to be invested across a range of asset types and countries, to try to reduce ultimate risk.

At this point you are ready to consider assets by sector and name.

2 users thanked Alan Selwood for this post.
satish mittal on 26/11/2017(UTC), Tim D on 26/11/2017(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 26 November 2017 17:06:49(UTC)
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I think the most important thing is not to overthink and just do it. Start by investing £100 per month into 5 or 6 trusts, read the annual reports, and business pages of a quality paper, obviously look at Citywire Money. Your knowledge will grow and you can then invest more funds as your confidence increases. The monthly purchases will take care of the 'what if the market falls X%' question.
1 user thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
laang lee on 29/11/2017(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 26 November 2017 17:44:49(UTC)
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Investors are very confident of markets as we ride the crest of a wave and IPOs have run out of steam. At the time of Brexit the FTSE 100 was 6000 and investors confidence was at a low.....IT discounts plunged to widest levels for years. Everyone loves SMT and Company is issuing shares and sector discounts have narrowed to lowest for many years. Investors seem to forget that SMT fell over 50% (bear market) in 2008/09.

Suggest split 20% between British Land ,Land Securities and Hammerson.(Commercial Property at NAV discount around 30%)
Split. 40% between 2 Large global ITs at largest discount.( buy the unloved ones not flavour of month)
Balance into Premuim Bond till Investors confidence at low.......be patient.

With IPOs running out of steam now is not the time for small cos.The sector will move onto large discounts and then you need the confidence to fill your boots.....I will.
5 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Mr Helpful on 26/11/2017(UTC), Mickey on 26/11/2017(UTC), Sara G on 26/11/2017(UTC), Alan Selwood on 26/11/2017(UTC), The Spanish Inquisition on 02/12/2017(UTC)
laang lee
Posted: 29 November 2017 17:54:57(UTC)
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I have found Citywire forums very useful, and have noticed some frequent contributors, and would like to thank all who have shared helpful thoughts. I do not know how much I have made and lost over the years. Sometimes I have been abroad and the market crashed. In 2000, I was so caught up in the euphoria that I did not believe it was all over,and watched my BT shares go up, and keep on going down. But neither situation applies now, because I can access my account from anywhere, and I think the next crash will be quicker, and there will be no time to think. The big computer programs will sell in an instant.
I would have liked to see more prosecutions of those who set up the mortgage based investment plans that brought on the 2008 crash. I knew I would lose if I sold all my newer equity investments. But the (now) old fashioned insurance based plans I started when younger, just kept plodding on, and eventually paid out far more than I paid in. The smallest one, was Life Insurance, and I paid only £20 per year, and because it was never going to be a stellar performer, I never increased the contribution. I did not die, and eventually they told me not to pay in anymore - just let it carry on growing. It paid out more than £15k. Money for nothing.
Vanguard is a co. much mentioned, and L&G have cheap trackers that cover many sectors.
I know that this is not an answer to "How would You invest £50k".?
I too would like a crystal ball. The chances are that I will live another 20 years, and the money I have is not enough to retire on.
My unit trusts had a flat 2013/14/15. It seemed like a crash was just around the corner, and it seemed like luck which funds went up - not mine - so if it was a matter of luck, and safety, I sold up (some) and bought Premium Bonds. £20k for 2 years. Less than £500 winnings. But safe -with inflation, say "I've still got what I started with."
Six months ago I bought a selection of ITs, £10k, as I could see the rise, and again, I've made about £500, from those. Now I wish I'd invested £20k.
I've wasted time, sitting on £10k, neither in the market, or in PBs. Because I want ITs that are going to do very well.
So if I had £50k, I would still dither. I cannot say for you which I think I would chose, though I have my list of ten. However, "If I was you" I'd put £20k in Vanguard 80/20, £10k in a Global Tracker - chose your type. £10k in Premium Bonds - you can easily withdraw it does not have to be more than 6 months. Then you could have 10 ITs or Individual shares to play around with. Not generally recommended, because it probably cost you £250 to buy and sell.
But, you can watch them, and take an interest in them, and get frustrated with them, but most importantly, learn where to make profit with the new money you will be investing in say
5 years time. As sectors go in and out of "fashion" (favour -for want of a better word.)
Not long ago one very good area was Income - big co.s that paid big dividends, then people got worried that only 20 firms were paying 80% of the big dividends.
Emerging Markets boomed, and are now touted as a recovery sector. Asia Pacific an obvious long term area of interest. Thailand brought that sector down, but Thailand recovered. China leads the way. I've read several comments "compare and contrast PH or PAC" - get both. If a manager has the whole world to chose from Why did Global funds not do better?
UK smaller co.s - done well - but - lets just say, I believe, that if there was another referendum, the vote would go 54% to 48% to stay in, before we leave. So do we think the EU will come crashing down without us? Which countries do we do "Free Trade" deals with -? One example -
Look how Pakistanis came to the clothing business,in Bradford to work here .But then lost / changed jobs when UK could not compete with Pakistani workers paid £20 per week in Pakistan, and containers of cheap imports were brought in with ineffective tariffs. Cheap clothes has been an economic and environmental calamity, the effects of which will not be realized until the effects of plastic microfibres is known, then it will be too late. I've seen the smog in Delhi. In Bangkok the windows were sealed shut. In Wuhan I wore an oxygen mask. This is the price of unregulated cheap imports into the UK.
I paid £2 for a can of Thai beer in Thailand supermarket, standard regular price - 90Baht.
Last month I paid 99p in Lidl for the same brand imported 1000 miles. OK must be clearance sale - but ...?
Yes I have got off the point. So I ask you, "If you had £50k, and you want it to be £75k in 5 years time ( Not unreasonable - not easy but not too difficult - ) What do You do??









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