Share this page:
Stay connected:
Welcome to the Citywire Money Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

Ocean Wilsons Holdings
Shetland
Posted: 11 October 2017 12:26:53(UTC)
#1

Joined: 13/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 122

Thanks: 148 times
Was thanked: 51 time(s) in 31 post(s)
1 user thanked Shetland for this post.
jvl on 11/10/2017(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 11 October 2017 12:47:05(UTC)
#2

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
Update.....Wilson Son up 20% last 1/2 months. Ocean shares this am were well bid for 5/- to 10/- but little on offer side. Market makers could be short and trying to keep the price down.
Big boy
Posted: 12 October 2017 12:06:19(UTC)
#3

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
Wilson Son closed up 1.23% last night. Also Hansa over £10... Have been buying Ocean as on bigger discount to Hansa....
Big boy
Posted: 12 October 2017 12:08:02(UTC)
#4

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
Wilson Son closed up 1.23% last night. Also Hansa over £10... Have been buying Ocean as on bigger discount to Hansa....
jvl
Posted: 12 October 2017 12:32:35(UTC)
#5

Joined: 01/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 324

Thanks: 187 times
Was thanked: 375 time(s) in 165 post(s)
How does that work, assuming assets are valued at the market price?

Hansa is at a discount of 27%.

Hansa has 30% of its assets in Ocean. Ocean is itself on a discount.

Surely buying Hansa is the better choice because you're buying a double discount. Unless, of course, you think Hansa's other holdings are complete rubbish.
Big boy
Posted: 12 October 2017 12:49:53(UTC)
#6

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
I have a big chunk of both. Ocean on discount of say 34% have more scope to narrow discount and Hansa would only have 30% of benefit .
Keith Cobby
Posted: 12 October 2017 13:16:16(UTC)
#7

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 387

Thanks: 209 times
Was thanked: 563 time(s) in 239 post(s)
I have just plugged Hansa into my AIC watchlist to see how it compares to my investments. It compares very badly.
Big boy
Posted: 12 October 2017 16:17:48(UTC)
#8

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
Keith ....I am very happy with 37% over last 18 months.
Alex Peard
Posted: 12 October 2017 16:45:37(UTC)
#9

Joined: 05/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 31

Thanks: 141 times
Was thanked: 33 time(s) in 14 post(s)
May have been okay over 18 months but long term performance appalling.

Directors and family control over 50% of voting shares so other shareholders have no influence in trying to get discount reduced or any other measures to improve performance. I bought for my SIPP ten years ago along with several other IT's, if only I had put all of it into SMT!

Hansa may be a play on Brazil but Brazil has always been a country where there is huge potential never realised.

Hansa is the only IT holding I have that has still not recovered from the financial crash, I should have sold out years ago but we are now very close to break even and I will definitely sell then.
2 users thanked Alex Peard for this post.
Keith Cobby on 12/10/2017(UTC), Tim D on 12/10/2017(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 12 October 2017 17:46:31(UTC)
#10

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 387

Thanks: 209 times
Was thanked: 563 time(s) in 239 post(s)
Alex, in your situation I wouldn't wait. Agree with your comments though.
Francis Wilkinson
Posted: 12 October 2017 18:08:23(UTC)
#11

Joined: 15/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 6

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hansa performance has been held back by massive discount-they are likely to outperform from now on as the discount unravels-much like Dunedin Enterprise.
The holding in Ocean Wilsons has hitherto been regarded as a negative but is now looking like a trump card.
Shetland
Posted: 12 October 2017 19:27:08(UTC)
#12

Joined: 13/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 122

Thanks: 148 times
Was thanked: 51 time(s) in 31 post(s)
Francis Wilkinson;51903 wrote:
Hansa performance has been held back by massive discount-they are likely to outperform from now on as the discount unravels-much like Dunedin Enterprise.
The holding in Ocean Wilsons has hitherto been regarded as a negative but is now looking like a trump card.



What is going to cause the discount to narrow now ?
Big boy
Posted: 12 October 2017 21:20:50(UTC)
#13

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
Shetland....the answer is buyers. The discount has narrowed from 35% to 26%. Buyers will come in as price rises and confidence returns....just look at SMT everyone loves them but they are now overvalued as are the underlying holdings. Alex......I never look at past performance as it does not add any value.
Big boy
Posted: 09 November 2017 11:38:57(UTC)
#14

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
Based on weak market for Wilson Son/ Brazil have sold last few Oceans. Price to-day is 1180p choice which gives a small short term profit.(bt at 1090p)

For followers of Hansa the Ordy are 1090p offered........NAV up and discount down.
Francis Wilkinson
Posted: 09 November 2017 15:55:48(UTC)
#15

Joined: 15/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 6

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
BigBoy has it i.e.a big mistake is obsessing on recent performance.
I was a buyer of Monks when they had been performing fairly poorly, hence on a large discount-now at a premium.
Hansa is unique in giving one a different offering with Ocean Wilsons in particular wheras many I.T.s hold similar stocks-typically U.S.big. tech.which S.M.T. is suggesting are looking toppy.
The massive discount at HAN together with proactive, sound management give them scope to move quicker than most I.M.H.O.
Large family holding can be seen as a plus with max. skin in the game!
Alex Peard
Posted: 10 November 2017 15:20:42(UTC)
#16

Joined: 05/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 31

Thanks: 141 times
Was thanked: 33 time(s) in 14 post(s)
Have today sold my holding in Hansa having waited over 10 years for them to get back to my buying price in 2007. Should have sold out years ago, all my other IT's which were impacted by the financial crisis recovered ages ago.

Disagree there is sound management or that the family holding is a plus. The board are under no pressure to narrow the discount and by any measure the historic performance is dire. It is likely the Salomon family have substantial wealth elsewhere so are not relying on this holding. In any event William Salomon is getting a substantial management fee paid by the company into the managers (Hansa Capital Partners) in which he is the senior partner.

But good luck to those buying now!
2 users thanked Alex Peard for this post.
Keith Cobby on 10/11/2017(UTC), Mickey on 10/11/2017(UTC)
Francis Wilkinson
Posted: 10 November 2017 18:03:03(UTC)
#18

Joined: 15/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 6

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I undersstand Alex Peard's frustration at the share performance at Hansa.
I can however beg to differ with his comments re. the Management.
Having met the Chairman and Mr Soloman I have seen their determination to improve the situation.
They have recently instigated major changes, incorporating specialised funds in Japan,Europe and America etc.whilst being confident-clearly with good reason- to back their unique position in Ocean Wilsons.
Similar proctive changes happened at Witan Pacific and Monks which were a prelude to improved performance-but coming from such a massive discount the Hansa turnaround could be more dramatic.
Clearly we must agree to differ, but it is sad to see someone losing faith at the very time when the market seems to becoming aware of the above.
As always time will tell.
1 user thanked Francis Wilkinson for this post.
Big boy on 10/11/2017(UTC)
Alex Peard
Posted: 10 November 2017 18:35:36(UTC)
#20

Joined: 05/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 31

Thanks: 141 times
Was thanked: 33 time(s) in 14 post(s)
Francis,

Very interesting to hear of your meeting. As you say time will tell. I had simply decided that I had held on long enough. Good luck!
1 user thanked Alex Peard for this post.
Keith Cobby on 11/11/2017(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 10 November 2017 19:56:08(UTC)
#22

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 225

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 241 time(s) in 122 post(s)
AP......it's all about timing. I bought in about 2 years ago and have a very happy result. I also have meet the Management/Directors at last 2 AGMs. I see Hansa Ordy have risen 30.68% during last 12 months.

When investing I never make an accesment of management and assume it is all equal. This way you don't buy into overvalued investment.
Keith Cobby
Posted: 11 November 2017 09:56:32(UTC)
#19

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 387

Thanks: 209 times
Was thanked: 563 time(s) in 239 post(s)
Francis Wilkinson;53121 wrote:
I undersstand Alex Peard's frustration at the share performance at Hansa.
I can however beg to differ with his comments re. the Management.
Having met the Chairman and Mr Soloman I have seen their determination to improve the situation.
They have recently instigated major changes, incorporating specialised funds in Japan,Europe and America etc.whilst being confident-clearly with good reason- to back their unique position in Ocean Wilsons.
Similar proctive changes happened at Witan Pacific and Monks which were a prelude to improved performance-but coming from such a massive discount the Hansa turnaround could be more dramatic.
Clearly we must agree to differ, but it is sad to see someone losing faith at the very time when the market seems to becoming aware of the above.
As always time will tell.


They seem to have taken a long time to address the situation of managing a very poorly performing fund. I agree with Alex who has been extraordinarily patient.
1 user thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
Alex Peard on 12/11/2017(UTC)
2 Pages12Next page
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets