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Looking at switching from a recovery/special sit fund into an IT
Jay Mi
Posted: 07 June 2017 13:17:54(UTC)
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I'm looking at switching out of a recovery/special sit fund I'm invested in and putting ~5k into a global IT to buy and hold. I still plan on dripping money into the recovery/special sit funds and other funds I am invested in.
I'm not concerned about income and more interested in total return and div reinvestment over a 10-15year period.

Any recommendations of ITs that I could look at for this.
I was thinking SMT or CLDN But I don't really know too many investment trusts.
I do not want LTI as the price is too high for me.

This will be held inside of an ISA.
I hold no Investment trusts at the moment, only open ended funds and a small amount of BBox.

This would take ~8% of my investments.

Thanks Jay.
1 user thanked Jay Mi for this post.
John E on 08/06/2017(UTC)
Mr Helpful
Posted: 07 June 2017 13:59:02(UTC)
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Jay Mi;47696 wrote:
I'm looking at switching out of a recovery/special sit fund I'm invested in and putting ~5k into a global IT to buy and hold. I still plan on dripping money into the recovery/special sit funds and other funds I am invested in.
I'm not concerned about income and more interested in total return and div reinvestment over a 10-15year period.

Any recommendations of ITs that I could look at for this.
I was thinking SMT or CLDN But I don't really know too many investment trusts.
I do not want LTI and the price is too high for me.

This will be held inside of an ISA.
This would take ~8% of my investments.



The following Global positions are included in our portfolio.
Shown are the current running yields and (price gain over 5 years).
However as income is not a priorty, some or all might not suit.

VWRL 1.9% (+90%) this is an ETF not an IT !!!
But a useful global benchmark when researching ITs.
IVPG 3.0% (+90%)
MYI 3.8% (+35%)
SCAM 3.2% (+65%)
Have held others in the past and may re-enter those positions at some point in future when rebuilding Stocks overall.
When choosing ITs we tend to gravitate towards those that have underperformed, but only provided we are happy with their method.
I.E. Out of favour stock selections.

Have been busy top-slicing Stocks for some time now, in what seems a fully valued market,
Not looking to add !!!
But as the intent is to switch horses rather than add, valuations may not be an issue ?
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Jay Mi on 07/06/2017(UTC)
Rishan
Posted: 07 June 2017 14:12:00(UTC)
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Jay Mi;47696 wrote:
I'm looking at switching out of a recovery/special sit fund I'm invested in and putting ~5k into a global IT to buy and hold. I still plan on dripping money into the recovery/special sit funds and other funds I am invested in.
I'm not concerned about income and more interested in total return and div reinvestment over a 10-15year period.

Any recommendations of ITs that I could look at for this.
I was thinking SMT or CLDN But I don't really know too many investment trusts.
I do not want LTI and the price is too high for me.

This will be held inside of an ISA.
I hold no Investment trusts at the moment, only open ended funds and a small amount of BBox.

This would take ~8% of my investments.

Thanks Jay.



SMT held in Baillie Gifford's own (very) low cost investment trust ISA. It's what I do. Divi reinvestment is free and the annual account cost will be only around £30 or so. SMT has been on a stellar run though, so you may feel it is also pricey
2 users thanked Rishan for this post.
Jay Mi on 07/06/2017(UTC), Keith Cobby on 07/06/2017(UTC)
Mickey
Posted: 08 June 2017 08:00:19(UTC)
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Jay Mi;47696 wrote:
I'm looking at switching out of a recovery/special sit fund I'm invested in and putting ~5k into a global IT to buy and hold. I still plan on dripping money into the recovery/special sit funds and other funds I am invested in.
I'm not concerned about income and more interested in total return and div reinvestment over a 10-15year period.

Any recommendations of ITs that I could look at for this.
I was thinking SMT or CLDN But I don't really know too many investment trusts.
I do not want LTI as the price is too high for me.

This will be held inside of an ISA.
I hold no Investment trusts at the moment, only open ended funds and a small amount of BBox.

This would take ~8% of my investments.

Thanks Jay.


Hi,
My current Global IT's are Scottish Mortgage (SMT), Foreign & Colonial (FRCL),Witan (WTAN) and Brunner (BUT).

SMT is pricey but my best performing
WTAN is decent though the discount has narrowed to around -2%
FRCL has been good lately and recently uprated by Morningstar to Silver.
BUT was bought on a high discount that has narrowed to around -13% now, I heard it was recently tipped by Questor in the Telegraph but didn't see that. One problem with BUT is that Aviva are looking to sell their large holding which I read was around 15% of the trust at one point, probably a bit less now.

Others that I have recently considered are F&C Smaller Co's, Edinburgh Worldwide and Law Debenture which has a high UK holding so could add a balance to my other Global IT's that form the core of my portfolio.

I used to hold Caledonia when it was on a high discount of almost -30% but I didn't like the large holding in Park Holidays which they have now sold for a good profit. I think CLDN is an OK hold but the discount needs to widen before I would put money into it again.

For a Global holding it is hard to ignore SMT but there have been recent changes with a move towards unquoteds. The current premium is perhaps a risk but is it anymore so than say the discount on CLDN which has narrowed as have most of the others.

If worried about discounts then Martin Currie Global is one that has a discount control in place.

Overall on a long term with no income requirement I would opt for Scottish Mortgage.
2 users thanked Mickey for this post.
Jim S on 08/06/2017(UTC), Mr Helpful on 08/06/2017(UTC)
Norman Brown
Posted: 08 June 2017 15:32:45(UTC)
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SMT is so different from the others that it's a choice that will be decided by the heart rather than anything else. It's far more equivalent to PCT or ATT than it is to a generalist. Personally, I think it's a huge risk to ignore the sort of stocks which those three trusts hold, but others have absolutely the contrary view.

To me, the negative with SMT is it's dividend policy, which is to sell shares to pay the dividend. Whilst ok within the ISA, it's generally grossly tax inefficient and is also doing something which muddles the whole investment case.
2 users thanked Norman Brown for this post.
Sara G on 08/06/2017(UTC), gillyann on 10/06/2017(UTC)
John E
Posted: 08 June 2017 16:39:57(UTC)
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I put £1000 into SMT for each of my grandchildren in a blind trust. 16 years later the £1000 is now £5500 (very happy grand children!). I also hold SMT as part of my portfolio as a buy and forget fund. I like their investment strategy but it is for a long term hold only. As has been noted it is near its all time high at the moment so might be a bit pricey but if for long term I would not worry too much
2 users thanked John E for this post.
Freddy4Skin on 11/06/2017(UTC), Keith Cobby on 11/06/2017(UTC)
Jim S
Posted: 08 June 2017 17:01:33(UTC)
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Its hard to argue with the suggestions you've had already

You haven't said what your open ended funds are. If you don't already hold much tech in them, and you're looking for something to buy long term and forget about, SMT seems like a great choice.

If you already hold a lot of tech, FRCL for diversification might make more sense.
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Mickey on 08/06/2017(UTC)
Pensioner
Posted: 08 June 2017 19:40:22(UTC)
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As already mentioned FRCL would be a good hold on a 10 to 15 year period if not more.
586.50p up 2.5p tonight. Current discount about 7.96%. Preferably held in and ISA and dealt direct. 4 divis paid a year about 9.85p total I think for 2016. (one of the 1st to pay 4 divis after the 2008 banking disaster). Certainly Global with over 500 companies. My wife has held it for about 30 years first as a "private investor", but in the mid to late 90's switched into ISA's to avoid capital gains, with all divis reinvested. This was done as part of her pension planning.
My 5 grandchildren with 2 mums as trustees also invested in FRCL. I saved on their behalf. They are all grown up now. I had hoped it would help finance university, but it was not to be.
However, transport today for the young is essential for their work. 4 of them were able to buy a car and my eldest grandson ((27yrs) and in the car trade, with car supplied, recently sold his holding at 565p to help him get a mortgage to buy his first home. Good Luck!
3 users thanked Pensioner for this post.
Mickey on 09/06/2017(UTC), Jim S on 09/06/2017(UTC), Keith Cobby on 11/06/2017(UTC)
Jay Mi
Posted: 08 June 2017 20:22:50(UTC)
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Jim S;47731 wrote:
Its hard to argue with the suggestions you've had already

You haven't said what your open ended funds are. If you don't already hold much tech in them, and you're looking for something to buy long term and forget about, SMT seems like a great choice.

If you already hold a lot of tech, FRCL for diversification might make more sense.


Thanks, I'll have a look at some of these suggestions.

The funds I currently hold are
Fidelity Global Tech acc
Old mutual uk midcap acc
Royal London U.K. Equity inc acc
Fidelity Global dividend acc
M&G Global recovery acc
R&M World recovery inc
M&G emerging market bonds
Schroders high yield opps Acc (bonds)
Legg Mason Japan equity Acc
Shares
Lloyds

Pretty much initial equal weighting for each ~8% each. The rest is bbox, Royal Mail, countrywide and Dixons Carphone.

The technology one has been my best performer then midcaps.
Probably worth me splitting between two trusts if I went for A tech based Or a more tech based trust as I don't to be too heavily weighted in tech.

M&G Global Rwcovery is the one I'm going to switch out of. My reason for investing in it is the same, but there are better performers in its sector and it's acting more like a badly performing tracker too it's benchmark. I'm happy to keep dripping into the fund, and be patient for if it does improve, but I'd rather take out my initial investment and put it elsewhere.

I've tried to have funds that I can buy and hold and I don't want to change them too much.
Freddy4Skin
Posted: 11 June 2017 08:53:31(UTC)
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John E;47730 wrote:
I put £1000 into SMT for each of my grandchildren in a blind trust. 16 years later the £1000 is now £5500 (very happy grand children!). I also hold SMT as part of my portfolio as a buy and forget fund. I like their investment strategy but it is for a long term hold only. As has been noted it is near its all time high at the moment so might be a bit pricey but if for long term I would not worry too much


I wish I'd had a grandfather like you!

Nevertheless, I too have held SMT for over 13 years and I have topped up whenever it falls to a small discount and will continue to do so in future. I also bought heavily into MONKS when it was on a 14% discount, their pfs are very similar as has been their pleasing performance over the last 12 months.

I have been more than a tad ambivalent about the large bet on Tesla but for the first time I saw a Model S parked on the street outside my house yesterday. It looked evil! I want one.
I have faith in James Anderson's judgement.
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Keith Cobby on 11/06/2017(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 11 June 2017 09:51:22(UTC)
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SMT NAV has underperformed the share price by 7.6% during last 12 months and now looks overbought as most investors are bullish of them. They (SMT) tend to hold bull market stocks and when markets turn they will be vulnerable and the share price will outperform (downwards) the NAV as the stock moves back to a discount as investors loose confidence.

I find its best to sell when stocks are overbought and buy when no one wants them. This way you will protect your capital and make more money over the coming years.

I also like the Tesla .....I think it's the one that does 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds
2 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Mr Helpful on 11/06/2017(UTC), Freddy4Skin on 11/06/2017(UTC)
Rishan
Posted: 11 June 2017 12:51:50(UTC)
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Big boy;47819 wrote:
SMT NAV has underperformed the share price by 7.6% during last 12 months and now looks overbought as most investors are bullish of them. They (SMT) tend to hold bull market stocks and when markets turn they will be vulnerable and the share price will outperform (downwards) the NAV as the stock moves back to a discount as investors loose confidence.

I find its best to sell when stocks are overbought and buy when no one wants them. This way you will protect your capital and make more money over the coming years.

I also like the Tesla .....I think it's the one that does 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds


You keep repeating this, but not everyone wants to be a trader. The OP clearly wrote buy and hold. I don't know of many better long term investments than SMT. And Hansa is not one before you start on that again...
Freddy4Skin
Posted: 11 June 2017 14:13:12(UTC)
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Rishan;47824 wrote:
Big boy;47819 wrote:
SMT NAV has underperformed the share price by 7.6% during last 12 months and now looks overbought as most investors are bullish of them. They (SMT) tend to hold bull market stocks and when markets turn they will be vulnerable and the share price will outperform (downwards) the NAV as the stock moves back to a discount as investors loose confidence.

I find its best to sell when stocks are overbought and buy when no one wants them. This way you will protect your capital and make more money over the coming years.

I also like the Tesla .....I think it's the one that does 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds


You keep repeating this, but not everyone wants to be a trader. The OP clearly wrote buy and hold. I don't know of many better long term investments than SMT. And Hansa is not one before you start on that again...


In fairness to Big Boy, making a case for banking some profit after a strong bull run of eight or nine years does not automatically put you in the category of trader.

We are constantly reminded of the mantra that you can't time the market yet as a long term holder of SMT, I am keenly aware of the fact that the share price tanked 44% in 2008/09. Whilst I would not dare make any market prediction nor discourage anyone's investment choices, I think that anyone thinking of buying into SMT at this time, long term hold or not should give serious consideration to this fact.
2 users thanked Freddy4Skin for this post.
Sara G on 11/06/2017(UTC), gillyann on 11/06/2017(UTC)
Rishan
Posted: 11 June 2017 14:36:39(UTC)
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Freddy4Skin;47827 wrote:

We are constantly reminded of the mantra that you can't time the market yet as a long term holder of SMT, I am keenly aware of the fact that the share price tanked 44% in 2008/09. Whilst I wound not dare make any market prediction nor discourage anyone's investment choices, I think that anyone thinking of buying into SMT at this time, long term hold or not should give serious consideration to this fact.


Agreed and I didn't mean my posts to sound like a recommendation. Nobody should take any comments on this forum as advice. Do own research until comfortable with decisions etc etc.

As for SMT, yes it is looking very expensive at the moment. I'm holding, but may not auto-reinvest the dividend (however small!) at these levels...
andy mac
Posted: 11 June 2017 14:53:19(UTC)
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I am missing Tony P at the moment
I hope hes just on holiday
I have generally stopped reinvesting dividends in the same share but look for something Im happy to hold that has a bit of value in it

I have followed TPs advice and have bought into my water supplier and NG but will wait and see what the next few weeks bring in so far it may be time to top slice them and wait

Generally I am taking a bit of the risk spectrum as I wait and see what the politicos manage to hammer out

I topped SMT a few weeks ago and it has regained everything so probably another topping

There is of course Mr Woodfords IT if he turned it around would make money but it has a bit of the falling knife syndrome

dyfed
Posted: 11 June 2017 17:30:22(UTC)
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I also top-sliced SMT earlier in the year, but buying STS, though I wish they'd disclose a bit more of their PF, and VHT healthcare ETF since WWH is now trading at a premium and PCGH is heading that way
Big boy
Posted: 11 June 2017 18:54:18(UTC)
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Thanks Rishan....why do you keep mentioning that stock.??? Happy investing
Rishan
Posted: 11 June 2017 19:23:44(UTC)
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Big boy;47835 wrote:
Thanks Rishan....why do you keep mentioning that stock.??? Happy investing


Haha, I keep mentioning it, do I? You've been punting it on here for 18 months! Ready to admit you work for them?
Big boy
Posted: 12 June 2017 09:30:03(UTC)
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Rishan....as mentioned before I am not employed by Hansa but as a shareholder I go to the AGM and ask questions as a shareholder and with my knowledge as an Award winning/top performing Fund Manager over many years.

I have mentioned many stocks and trade many more. ITs can be very simple and some are very complex .... it would be wrong of me to suggest a complex Trust on this site.
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Mickey on 12/06/2017(UTC)
Recently Redundant and Retired
Posted: 12 June 2017 10:44:24(UTC)
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andy mac;47830 wrote:
I am missing Tony P at the moment
I hope hes just on holiday


Ditto.
Think he was bullied once too often so doesn't share his thoughts for the time being. Pity.
Hope he enjoyed Saturday's Telegraph articles, one saying how inept city experts are and how common-sense investing beats them, another asking what fund managers do for their £millions in pay and bonuses.
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