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Investing in tech start-ups
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 19 May 2017 06:41:41(UTC)
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What do you guys think of investing in tech start-ups? Does anyone have any experience?
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 22 May 2017 17:10:02(UTC)
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I think start-ups are the only legitimate way to become rich nowadays. To deal with real estate or stocks/forex too must be wealthy and have 20-100 grands to risk, with start-ups you may start with just a few hundreds $.
Micawber
Posted: 22 May 2017 17:16:32(UTC)
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I do hope this thread is not going to lead to a plug for some website you are involved with, like last time.

And it is nonsense, for starters, to suggest that investing in start-ups is "the only legitimate way to become rich nowadays." Investing in startups can often lead to rapid impoverishment. And there are many legitimate ways to become rich, including the lottery.
6 users thanked Micawber for this post.
Paul Anderson on 22/05/2017(UTC), dyfed on 22/05/2017(UTC), Alan Selwood on 22/05/2017(UTC), lynne shaffer on 23/05/2017(UTC), Cyrus Zaydan on 23/05/2017(UTC), c brown on 24/05/2017(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 22 May 2017 17:40:03(UTC)
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Yale have averaged something like 30% annual returns in their Venture Capital investments.

Definitely a good way to get rich if you've got a staff of 200 investment professionals working for you, a reputation, and have $billions of capital to commit for decades at a time.
Alan Selwood
Posted: 22 May 2017 20:42:19(UTC)
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Otherwise........

..........................forget it!
2 users thanked Alan Selwood for this post.
King Lodos on 23/05/2017(UTC), Micawber on 23/05/2017(UTC)
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 23 May 2017 08:10:37(UTC)
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Micawber;47045 wrote:
I do hope this thread is not going to lead to a plug for some website you are involved with, like last time.

And it is nonsense, for starters, to suggest that investing in start-ups is "the only legitimate way to become rich nowadays." Investing in startups can often lead to rapid impoverishment. And there are many legitimate ways to become rich, including the lottery.


Micawber, $20 trillion involved in the industry, 50 million people start 5,000 tech ventures daily, 5% of them get funded by angel investors and venture capitalists. This means hundreds of thousands of people 10x and 100x their investments yearly. Do you really think it has something to do with "the other ways to become rich, including the lottery"?

This bubble has already exceeded dot-com one we witnessed 20 years ago. One can stay away and see people making tons of money but my choice is to give it a shot. Start-ups is business of starters, by definition.

Yes, I did advertise my web platform as I think it provides unique opportunities for usual people to invest in start-ups online. Nobody else does it they way I do and I'm ready to prove it here if anyone cares.
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 23 May 2017 08:24:26(UTC)
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King Lodos;47047 wrote:
Yale have averaged something like 30% annual returns in their Venture Capital investments.

Definitely a good way to get rich if you've got a staff of 200 investment professionals working for you, a reputation, and have $billions of capital to commit for decades at a time.



You talk about large VC funds that invest in thousands of deals to find 1-2 unicorns whose IPOs will 10000x their investments and compensate all fails.

What I talk about is careful investing in a few pre-selected companies with 100% control on the capital. As they develop, adding to the winning positions and cutting from the losing ones.

50 years ago stocks&options were a business of institutional investors only. Today nobody is surprised by successful individual traders. The same with venture capital market, IMO.

S_M
Posted: 23 May 2017 08:32:07(UTC)
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tiptopfund tiptopfund;47079 wrote:
Micawber;47045 wrote:
I do hope this thread is not going to lead to a plug for some website you are involved with, like last time.

And it is nonsense, for starters, to suggest that investing in start-ups is "the only legitimate way to become rich nowadays." Investing in startups can often lead to rapid impoverishment. And there are many legitimate ways to become rich, including the lottery.


Micawber, $20 trillion involved in the industry, 50 million people start 5,000 tech ventures daily, 5% of them get funded by angel investors and venture capitalists. This means hundreds of thousands of people 10x and 100x their investments yearly. Do you really think it has something to do with "the other ways to become rich, including the lottery"?

This bubble has already exceeded dot-com one we witnessed 20 years ago. One can stay away and see people making tons of money but my choice is to give it a shot. Start-ups is business of starters, by definition.

Yes, I did advertise my web platform as I think it provides unique opportunities for usual people to invest in start-ups online. Nobody else does it they way I do and I'm ready to prove it here if anyone cares.


Ten a penny do what you are trying to ramp on here. People on Citywire are quite astute you know and when they spot a tech opportunity, it usually does well.

You talk about the 10 baggers and 100 baggers, what about the hundreds that go bust?
Micawber
Posted: 23 May 2017 08:32:17(UTC)
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tiptopfund tiptopfund;47079 wrote:
50 million people start 5,000 tech ventures daily, .


And what percentage of those succeed.......

Even a hardened pro like Woodford has not so far been able to enrich investors in his Patient Capital IT. I wouldn't fancy the prospects for an Impatient Capital IT either.

As a rule, get rich quick stories are a snare and a delusion for the majority. As with betting on horses, you only hear about the winners. If at all tempted, I'd rather back a horse that's shown some form.


3 users thanked Micawber for this post.
S_M on 23/05/2017(UTC), dyfed on 23/05/2017(UTC), c brown on 24/05/2017(UTC)
Ark Welder
Posted: 23 May 2017 11:38:10(UTC)
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I remember a similar operation a few years ago that offered the chance to buy shares in startups and then to trade them with others on an in-house platform. That was a ponzi scheme operating out of Ukraine.

This web-site contravenes a few EU and UK regulations, and definitely contravenes UK distance selling regulations. No indication that the company/individuals behind the operation are regulated and authorised to provide such a service in this or any other european country. In fact, the anonymity of those behind the site is assisted by the use of Bitcoin as a funding medium.

If anyone does want to take the risk of putting money into unproven businesses then there are UK authorised and regulated crowdfunding platforms available to do so.
3 users thanked Ark Welder for this post.
Mickey on 23/05/2017(UTC), Micawber on 23/05/2017(UTC), c brown on 24/05/2017(UTC)
Ermintrade
Posted: 23 May 2017 12:09:37(UTC)
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The area of tech start-ups is extremely risky. Very few individual investors would have the time, expertise and knowledge to differentiate potential winners from total losers. Basically, it is like going to a casino.
So this is an area where it is it is highly advisable to rely on experts - I would suggest two investment trusts - Axa Framlington Global Technology, and Polar Capital Technology.
Regards
ermintrade
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Mickey on 23/05/2017(UTC)
Micawber
Posted: 23 May 2017 12:44:26(UTC)
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I certainly will not be putting any of my hard-won money anywhere near a venture whose website is traceable no further than "domains by proxy" of Scotsdale, Arizona; where there is no individual or company behind it whose identity is given; where the contact page gives no more information than the Google map of Tallinn; which is unregulated by any authority; which takes money in the form of bitcoin only - and that in some unidentified escrow: which is in short uncheckable.

There are plenty of opportunities to invest in tech startups under regulated propositions in UK/EU/USA with companies who have a solid track record and reputation.
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Mickey on 23/05/2017(UTC)
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 23 May 2017 16:07:12(UTC)
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Ark Welder;47093 wrote:


If anyone does want to take the risk of putting money into unproven businesses then there are UK authorised and regulated crowdfunding platforms available to do so.


I am familiar with these platforms, seedrs.co.uk is one of them. They allow small investments in startups but you don't know how your money will be used and they don't let exit. So you just need to have a trust and say goodbye to your money, if in 5-7 years a company is acquired you can earn something.

Doesn't look interesting, IMO.
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 23 May 2017 16:12:30(UTC)
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Ermintrade;47094 wrote:
The area of tech start-ups is extremely risky. Very few individual investors would have the time, expertise and knowledge to differentiate potential winners from total losers. Basically, it is like going to a casino.
So this is an area where it is it is highly advisable to rely on experts - I would suggest two investment trusts - Axa Framlington Global Technology, and Polar Capital Technology.
Regards
ermintrade


I agree with everything you said but that's exactly why I think new approach is needed. Accordingly to the approach I described above, an individual doesn't need to differentiate potential winners from losers, he just need to monitor activity of start-ups and pick shares of those start-ups that enter an affordable risk area.

As it was shown in my example, investing in the idea is a way more risky than investing in a company with working business model. Everyone has his own risk tolerance.
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 23 May 2017 16:28:10(UTC)
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Micawber;47096 wrote:
I certainly will not be putting any of my hard-won money anywhere near a venture whose website is traceable no further than "domains by proxy" of Scotsdale, Arizona; where there is no individual or company behind it whose identity is given; where the contact page gives no more information than the Google map of Tallinn; which is unregulated by any authority; which takes money in the form of bitcoin only - and that in some unidentified escrow: which is in short uncheckable.

There are plenty of opportunities to invest in tech startups under regulated propositions in UK/EU/USA with companies who have a solid track record and reputation.


Thanks for exploring my website. It is a pity that you missed the page https://www.tiptopfund.com/tos/ where some of your questions are answered:

"TipTopFund is a limited liability company based in Estonia."

"2.4. Payment services are provided by Financial Company (“FC”) as a payment service provider and in accordance with their terms and conditions. FC is a credit institution, authorized and regulated by the Estonian Financial Supervision Authority."

I was not dreaming to become a trusted person with my beta version website and it takes time to make everything right. I do appreciate your feedback though.

With regards to bitcoin - I target holders of cryptocurrency as they don't have many options to invest their digital assets. Besides, blockchain technology enables multi signature accounts which allow to 'lock' money of investors by several private keys, which means even escrow cannot use it without your key. Quite secure and transparent feature.

"Some unidentified escrow" is the most reputable escrow service in the world of cryptocurrencies, EscrowMyBits, an American company.
King Lodos
Posted: 23 May 2017 19:35:49(UTC)
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Well I hope you do make a success of it .. But it's always wise to be wary of people who'd rather make money by risking other people's.

Which is smart, but when asking people to take unquantified risk with you, you really need to prove you're capable.. You might not even understand the risks in this sector yet.
Alan Selwood
Posted: 23 May 2017 21:31:13(UTC)
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Dear "tiptopfund tiptopfund"

Since you are promoting your supposed Estonian set-up, if only by referring to it without supplying links to web pages, you should be aware that this website does not permit promotions of this type.

You seem to be running very close to being reported for infringement of the site's terms & conditions, so I suggest you just stop posting now, otherwise one of us will almost certainly click on 'Report this post', and you'll get taken down anyway!

Is there anything about the above paragraphs that you don't understand?

1 user thanked Alan Selwood for this post.
MAK on 23/05/2017(UTC)
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 24 May 2017 06:02:28(UTC)
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King Lodos;47119 wrote:
Well I hope you do make a success of it .. But it's always wise to be wary of people who'd rather make money by risking other people's.

Which is smart, but when asking people to take unquantified risk with you, you really need to prove you're capable.. You might not even understand the risks in this sector yet.


Well, being a self-starter of 4 successful business with 17 years experience in IT, finances and stock trading I am somewhat familiar with risks associated with these sectors. I was not looking for investors/partners here, I'm interested in getting feedback on the concept and prototype. As I said, my target audience consists of people who use cryptocurrencies.
King Lodos
Posted: 24 May 2017 06:23:52(UTC)
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tiptopfund tiptopfund;47126 wrote:
King Lodos;47119 wrote:
Well I hope you do make a success of it .. But it's always wise to be wary of people who'd rather make money by risking other people's.

Which is smart, but when asking people to take unquantified risk with you, you really need to prove you're capable.. You might not even understand the risks in this sector yet.


Well, being a self-starter of 4 successful business with 17 years experience in IT, finances and stock trading I am somewhat familiar with risks associated with these sectors. I was not looking for investors/partners here, I'm interested in getting feedback on the concept and prototype. As I said, my target audience consists of people who use cryptocurrencies.


Well no problem offering perspective.

I've pondered the idea of starting a Bitcoin hedge fund – but I do think 'social proof' (what's going to make people trust you with their money) is a huge hurdle.

I've helped IFAs with their websites, and what they all really need are those Trustpilot reviews and recognised brand affiliations, otherwise it's very difficult not to look like a scammer or college kid with a website .. So I think you'd be fighting an uphill struggle getting customers .. If I were going that route, I'd start with my own capital (and friends' and family) and prove you can make money doing this first .. Run a blog, a Twitter account, market yourself as a private fund – regularly updating on investments and performance .. And when you've built a track record – if you've marketed well, and engaged with people – you may find people are asking to invest in you.
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dyfed on 24/05/2017(UTC)
tiptopfund tiptopfund
Posted: 24 May 2017 06:28:44(UTC)
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Alan Selwood;47123 wrote:
Dear "tiptopfund tiptopfund"

Since you are promoting your supposed Estonian set-up, if only by referring to it without supplying links to web pages, you should be aware that this website does not permit promotions of this type.

You seem to be running very close to being reported for infringement of the site's terms & conditions, so I suggest you just stop posting now, otherwise one of us will almost certainly click on 'Report this post', and you'll get taken down anyway!

Is there anything about the above paragraphs that you don't understand?




Dear Alan Selwood,

Thank you for your suggestion but I suspect you misunderstood my intentions.

If I get it right, this forum is used by people to communicate and share their opinions freely and I haven't noticed any restrictions for me to post here while reading the TOS. The "investing" section as I can see includes discussions about bitcoin, general investing, investing in stocks and even renewable energy. I discuss relevant topic - investing in cryptocurrencies, and I invite respected people to critic my idea that, in my opinion, makes it possible to develop start-ups safely and effectively. Further, none of my post has any links (excluding a link to legal information I used to clarify the jurisdiction of my business and authorities it is regulated by), neither do I ask anyone to join any website or use any services.

Thus, I can be here, my information is relevant and cannot be considered as a promotion. Therefore, my posts are compliant to the website TOS and cannot be "taken down".

If for some reason the information I post here upsets you I am awfully sorry and want to suggest you simply don't read this thread.

Hope this helps.
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