Share this page:
Stay connected:
Welcome to the Citywire Money Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

Do we need tougher rules for dangerous dogs?
Chris Marshall (Citywire)
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:18:21(UTC)
#1

Joined: 24/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 47

While the rest of us were complaining about the traffic, a ten year old girl spent three hours of her bank holiday weekend undergoing reconstructive surgery to her face.

The reason? Another attack by dogs. The attack on Rhianna Kidd in Dundee led to a 33-year-old woman being charged under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 for failing to keep the her Rottweilers under control.

The attack came just days after an eight year old, Sky Barker, was mauled by a Japanese Akita, requiring 175 stitches to repair the damage.

There appear to be several reasons for attacks such as these. The first is the carelessness on the part of the owner that in the worst cases is tantamount to manslaughter. It’s quite simple; big, dangerous dogs need to be kept under control at all times.

Another reason is the vague set of rules under which four types of dogs are banned: the Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Brasileiro. Critics say the rules over what is a dangerous dog are too vague, allowing many dog owners to simply pretend their pets are not among the banned types.

Dangerous dogs are often abandoned and then attack animals or people. Battersea Dogs and Cats Home said recently that it had been forced to put down a growing number of dogs because of their behaviour.

A final, particularly alarming, reason is the increasing breeding of ‘status’ dogs. Dogs, trained to attack, have become the new weapon of choice in some inner city areas. It may be illegal to brandish a knife, but a cross-breed might get past the Dangerous Dogs Act and it’ll make the owner look hard as nails - or at least that’s the idea. Many of these animals are also used in dog fighting, which is growing in popularity.

All of these problems stem not from the breed of dog involved, but from the owner.

But what can be done about it? The government is being lobbied to introduce a registration or licence scheme. This would be paid for by the owner and would reliably link a dog to the person responsible for it. Is this the answer?

London's deputy mayor Kit Malthouse said recently that owners who use their dogs as weapons should face the same penalties as carrying a knife.

You can sign Malthouse’s petition, and see his other recommendations, here: http://www.london.gov.uk/dangerous-dogs-petition.
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 01 September 2010 13:16:37(UTC)
#2

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 922

Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 4 post(s)
I agree with Kit Malthouse except that the owners should have their aggression permanently reduced by irreversible neutering and tranquilliser implants. Their children should be permanently taken from them.
barz
Posted: 01 September 2010 16:40:26(UTC)
#3

Joined: 28/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3

this one has a definite yes from me and i like dogs and take my sons collie for many walks.
.
there are a breeds around that can and do kill and sometimes certain breeds are in the hands of local yobs and thugs who shouldnt be allowed these sort of animals anyway. added to that is the renewal of dogfighting and this will get totally out of hand when police force cuts start to bite. so yes,tougher rules and also a dog licence of at least £100 for certain types of dog with the details of where the dog is kept and by whom. those with criminal records should not be allowed to have any sort of fighting type dog. if you agree then write to your mp or just e mail him or her.
Tim Earl
Posted: 01 September 2010 16:41:39(UTC)
#4

Joined: 16/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4

Radical Jeremy, but I like your thinking.
Steven McCann
Posted: 01 September 2010 16:45:53(UTC)
#5

Joined: 10/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19

What really needs to happen is to get the status tag removed from the owners who must have the dog to give them street-cred. Have a look around you when you're out in your car and look at the type of owners who have these types of dogs.

A local vet once told me that Rottweilers are not pets, and that pretty much sums it up for me. Look at the biting action of a Staff and tell me that's a pet. What about the power in the jaws of most dogs?

Making a salutory example of a few owners and heavily publicising it could be a start....... but then again we've seen the power of the bite of some judges.
Christopher Duffin
Posted: 01 September 2010 16:59:23(UTC)
#6

Joined: 04/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1

All dogs should be licenced and tagged with their owner's name and address.
Licences should not be given for aggresive breeds of dog.
Exceptions may be made for special situations or owners, police dogs for example.
All other unlicenced dogs should be put down.
Brian Meek
Posted: 01 September 2010 17:02:36(UTC)
#7

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 10

Most dogs are not inherently vicious but become vicious due to training or mistreatment. The solution is twofold: ban those breeds which are specifically bred for viciousness, of which there are few, and introduce licences for other breeds. Penalties for owning banned breeds and for training/mistreating dogs need to be sufficiently harsh to provide a deterent and licence fees should high enough to prevent someone owning a dog on a whim. Licences should be capable of withdrawal in cases of abuse.

A friend of mine had a rottweiler as a pet. The only chance of being harmed by it was its boisterousness. Like most dogs it would welcome you on arrival by running towards you. The problem was that its size and weight was liable to knock you over.
richard hickman
Posted: 01 September 2010 17:15:50(UTC)
#8

Joined: 17/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 8

When will Parliament realise that the making of more rules adds nothing other than cost and inconvenience to the innocent whereas those who ignore the rules are typically those who created the problem in the first place.
gwilym rhys-jones
Posted: 01 September 2010 17:20:15(UTC)
#9

Joined: 19/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 4

On the Costa del Sol the Municipal Police enforce the dangerous dog laws which means in effect we do not see many of these dangerous dogs. In order to own such a dog the owner must apply for a licence, have no criminal record and pass a psychological test. The thugs and morons used to strut about with their weapon dogs, but no more. The Spanish police also have the cojones lacking in their UK counterparts to enforce the law.
Lionel Smith
Posted: 01 September 2010 18:03:30(UTC)
#10

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

Delusion starts when people think they can differentiate between breeds of dogs as towhich are dangerous and which are not. I have seen people badly savaged by Jack Russell's and witnessed Golden Retrievers in training as a gaurd dog, pull over a fully grown man and make a mess of the protections suit.

As a nation we deem it fit that anyone can own a dog or animal (other than those listed on the Dangerous Animal Act) and therein lies the problem. Until the status of being able to own an animal is raised, the problem will continue to exist. Breeder's should also have to attain some form of license because until both of these issues are controlled, the problem of dog (or other animals) will continue until the list of prohibited animals contains everything apart from worms and toothless MP's.

I usually hate more regulation but in the case of other living creatures, I think we humans need to sharpen up.
Jackdusty
Posted: 01 September 2010 20:06:54(UTC)
#11

Joined: 01/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2

ALL dogs have the potential to be dangerous, let's face it prior to humans messing in their lives and using them for their own protection and hunting they used to hunt in packs. Why do most humans own a dog? As a status symbol, it is not just thugs who own them for status.

We used to have a dog licencing system, not well policed as it was really just another tax. Whilst I abhor legislation for legislation's sake making, the owners accountable is the best way to stop these attacks, increase the list of dangerous dogs, make licences prohibitive, make breeders more accountable and prosecute the owner of ANY dog that attacks a human, whether they are on the list or not ,as if they had committed the attack themselves.

The only other answer is for us humans to get a life and stop owning other species to boost our own image.
Roger Savage
Posted: 01 September 2010 20:07:41(UTC)
#12

Joined: 21/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 22

It's bad training and neglect that make dogs dangerous. A lot of people who buy Staffordshire Bull Terriers or Rottweilers (or snakes and lizards for that matter) buy them because their 'dangerous' image makes them 'look hard'. It's these sorts of owners who create problems, or those who mistreat their animals. Blaming the animal certainly misses the point.

What I think is more alarming is that such people - the scum of society - are actually allowed to breed themselves.

It's shocking that when an animal attacks someone (maybe even after provocation), it's generally automatically put down or shot (not simply tranquilised) in the case of escaped bulls, etc... as a punishment for its 'crime'. When a human attacks someone else, they gain access to huge quantities of Legal Aid and masses of sympathy from left wing, sandal wearing, hand wringing do-gooders. The victim becomes almost completely forgotten. Strange because surely it could be argued that the human should know better than an animal.

Perhaps the real issue is not having a license scheme for dogs. There should perhaps instead be a license for humans to breed, with minimum financial and intellect requirements - after all, what is the point in allowing pond life to breed more pond life?

After all, you don't get a pedigree from two mongrels... (and I'm not talking about dogs).
Wilf X
Posted: 01 September 2010 20:49:03(UTC)
#13

Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1


Licences won't work - accept this.

The only way to get rid of status dogs is to remove their status. Every dog should have to be muzzled - that's it. Any dog without it get's taken away and the owner gets an immediate fine, there's no messing around with breeds, no courts, no legal aid. It's quick, it's easy and soon the idiots with these dangerous dogs will realise there's no point to having them. The people who get dogs because they are animal lovers should be happy to put up with this inconvenience.
Roger Savage
Posted: 01 September 2010 21:44:04(UTC)
#14

Joined: 21/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 22

Wilf X - "The people who get dogs because they are animal lovers should be happy to put up with this inconvenience".

How idiotic.

So you punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty?

Why should anyone be happy to put up with inconvenience, apart from a masochist?

This is the sort of garbage that has brought us all sorts of restrictions to life in the UK. Pointless rules and pointless bureaucracy imposed on people just going about their daily business.

For example, open a bank account and you have to prove who you are time and time again to verify your identity because of fraudsters. Net result? The fraudsters carry on being fraudulent (because they'll always find a way) and the innocent average man/woman in the street not intent on fraud is presumed guilty until they prove themselves innocent, thereby inconvenienced in the process.

This is also very similar to poor management in business where one member of staff 'is up to something' and a company will bring rules in that clamp down on every single member of staff (i.e. those that haven't been 'up to something') whilst still employing the 'rogue' because they haven't got the guts to sack him/her. It's nonsensical and lazy.

Bring in rules for muzzles and do you know what will happen? The very owners you'd be targetting with the muzzles wouldn't put them on their dogs and all the decent animal lovers would put the muzzles on their dogs without fail. The rogue owners might then be fined for not using muzzles, but they wouldn't pay the fines (or pay them at 1p a week until the end of time) or would claim their human rights had been infringed and there would be a queue of vile lawyers queuing up to defend them on legal aid.
Franco
Posted: 01 September 2010 23:48:09(UTC)
#15

Joined: 16/09/2007(UTC)
Posts: 17

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Dangerous breeds should be banned
All dogs to be licenced at L100 annually
Annual lcences with name & address of owne and muzzle to be worn on a neck collarat all times outside the home.
Spot fine of L100 for non-compliance or fouling any public place.
L100 reward for informers on any of the above/.
Any dog who injurs any other animal (non-vermin) to be killed with out any trial or chance for appeal
Before licence owners to show proof of goodccharacter and dog-handling certificate.
Anonymous Post
Posted: 02 September 2010 11:19:35(UTC)
#16
Anonymous 1 needed this 'Off the Record'

This subject has brought more extremist reactions than any other subject by City Wire since I started reading it years ago and what I find frightening is that I agree with them all. Unfortunately in this country we are so self delusionist that the right decisions will never be made. We think we are still a power in the world when that status ended years ago and we think we are a nation of animal lovers with the right to criticise other countries like Spain for their cruelties. Try talking to the RSPCA and dogs homes. But the guy from the Costa Del Sol seems to have the most sensible solution. High license fees and compulsory insurance and an uninhabited island in the Hebrides for the nutters.
Macek Muri
Posted: 03 September 2010 08:24:41(UTC)
#17

Joined: 29/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 3

I was quite happy to sign the dangerous dogs petition. But it is only for London.

Quote: 'In the rest of the UK, a child under five has been killed each year since 2006 by a dangerous dog. We need to make sure this doesn’t happen in London and give more protection from dangerous dogs to Londoners.'


Anonymous Post
Posted: 03 September 2010 10:43:39(UTC)
#18
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

Roger S:

"How idiotic.

So you punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty?"

How idiotic your comment. Why you would consider muzzling dogs in public punishment is beyond me - I don't ever want to see a dog in public, ever, regardless of whether it's muzzled or not. Why should I have to suffer this offense? You should consider it a priviledge (which can and should be removed) that you are able to take those mutts out into public. Putting restrictions on their being in public is *not* a punishment but merely an attempt to reduce the offense of the act itself.

I don't trust dogs and wish they'd never take them outside because I'm a bit frightened by them, and rightly so as ever few weeks we read about yet another baby mauling, or bystander attacked by these creatures. Recently my council put up poop boxes around and these idiots let their dogs poop right in front of the boxes without cleaning them up, they also scoff at the laws and often (too often) don't even have them on their required leashes.

I want them all gone, all of them, completely 100% gone out of public view. Only then will this issue go away. If you want a dog, great, but keep it at home where it can eat *your* children.
Ian Phillips
Posted: 03 September 2010 12:28:47(UTC)
#19

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 29

Anon 2.......your first comment "how idiotic" summed up your own rant!
Anonymous Post
Posted: 03 September 2010 13:22:22(UTC)
#20
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

@Ian - Nice retort - full of substance your post. Now how about discussing?
2 Pages12Next page
+ Reply to discussion