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What are the value based funds/investment trusts
Raj K
Posted: 11 January 2017 13:21:25(UTC)
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Hello All

With all this talk about markets changing to favour the value investor i thought it might be useful if we could list the funds or investment trusts that follow a more value based principle.

I have been trying to find the correct definition of value investing but i believe it isl based on finding good companies but where the share price for some reason does not reflect the intrinsic worth?

One i know of is British Empire Securities but it seems it holds various holding companies and funds within itself.





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Naseer Ahmed on 12/01/2017(UTC)
Jeff Liddiard
Posted: 11 January 2017 15:32:03(UTC)
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Raj K;41363 wrote:
Hello All

With all this talk about markets changing to favour the value investor i thought it might be useful if we could list the funds or investment trusts that follow a more value based principle.

I have been trying to find the correct definition of value investing but i believe it isl based on finding good companies but where the share price for some reason does not reflect the intrinsic worth?

One i know of is British Empire Securities but it seems it holds various holding companies and funds within itself.







Good question. Would it be Liontrust Special Situations and Marlborough Special Situations and Fidelity Asian Values? Something with Special Situations and or Value in the title. Lets see what is suggested by the brains of this forum!
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Raj K on 11/01/2017(UTC), Naseer Ahmed on 12/01/2017(UTC)
Keith Hilton
Posted: 11 January 2017 15:44:41(UTC)
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Jeff Liddiard;41372 wrote:
...Would it be Liontrust Special Situations and Marlborough Special Situations and Fidelity Asian Values? Something with Special Situations and or Value in the title. Lets see what is suggested by the brains of this forum!


Don't class myself within the "brains" on this forum, but suggest that you also add "Recovery" and perhaps "Opportunities" to your list of keywords.

HOT, MYI & TMPL are trusts that have a value approach. I'm sure there's many more. (Note that the last two don't contain any obvious value keywords!).


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Jeff Liddiard on 11/01/2017(UTC), Raj K on 11/01/2017(UTC), Naseer Ahmed on 12/01/2017(UTC), Guest on 13/01/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 13/01/2017(UTC)
srg751
Posted: 11 January 2017 15:49:32(UTC)
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If you want a fund that has a portfolio targeting value stocks, look no further than funds that end in 'special situations', or 'recovery'.

I hold Law Debenture and British Empire IT's. ( think I posted about them a while back).
WWH and BIOG are 2 on a charge at the moment. ( not value though).......Think ( without looking), I'm up about 14% since I posted the transactions a few weeks ago. Plenty more to go though. They've both been shackled for 18 months. 2 no brainers as far as I'm concerned.
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Raj K on 11/01/2017(UTC), martin hargan on 12/01/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 13/01/2017(UTC), Guest on 13/01/2017(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 11 January 2017 15:57:22(UTC)
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I've never liked the term value. I divide funds into income and growth by the dividend yield.
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Raj K on 11/01/2017(UTC), Mr Helpful on 12/01/2017(UTC), JohnW on 12/01/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 13/01/2017(UTC), Andrew Smith 259 on 15/01/2017(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 11 January 2017 16:14:09(UTC)
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You can see the problem with rating active funds is the best positioned value performers are sitting on 1 or 2 star ratings after years of underperformance..

Investec Global Special Situations is well positioned for the Trump trade .. Standard Life UK Equity Recovery is very valuey, but has performed surprisingly well while value's been out of favour.
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Raj K on 11/01/2017(UTC), Naseer Ahmed on 12/01/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 13/01/2017(UTC)
chubby bunny
Posted: 11 January 2017 17:26:19(UTC)
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You can use Morningstar's screening tool - http://tools.morningstar...uk&LanguageId=en-GB - to search for funds with value/blend style boxes.

They have a similar tool for investment trusts - http://tools.morningstar...LL&LanguageId=en-GB - but you cannot search by style box, though you can click on the 'Portfolio' tab in the search results and sort by style box that way.

That said, the style box isn't always indicative of how the fund is positioned, but you can check the P/E etc. of the portfolios on Morningstar too.
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Raj K on 11/01/2017(UTC), Naseer Ahmed on 12/01/2017(UTC), Guest on 13/01/2017(UTC)
Dian
Posted: 12 January 2017 06:30:37(UTC)
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Simon Owen
Posted: 12 January 2017 08:12:52(UTC)
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Hi Jon

I agree with you on biotech and bough BIOG very recently. Do you think Trump's comments yesterday changes the position much or just short term noise? Of which I think there will be plenty as the months roll by!

:-)
Simon Owen
Posted: 12 January 2017 09:53:47(UTC)
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Apologies my last post was addressed to Jon - it should have started Hi SRG 751 and referred to post #4.

Must have had a "senior moment"!
srg751
Posted: 12 January 2017 09:58:46(UTC)
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Simon Owen;41430 wrote:
Hi Jon

I agree with you on biotech and bough BIOG very recently. Do you think Trump's comments yesterday changes the position much or just short term noise? Of which I think there will be plenty as the months roll by!

:-)


Not t all Simon. BIOG and WWH are perennial performers. WWH even managed to keep its head above water during 2008/2009.
Micawber
Posted: 12 January 2017 10:06:14(UTC)
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I think Trump is going to be a drag on healthcare, at least on the pharma and biotech side.

What seems to be taking shape is an administration almost wholly conditioned by business experience that will be looking for better deals. In this case, between whatever replaces Obama's healthcare system and suppliers of drugs to it. His aim will be to reduce what the state spends on supporting healthcare and get better value for it. Likewise, it seems, his approach to defence procurement. I expect that he will also be looking for deals from the likes of cash-rich Apple that gets most of its hardware made in China: you can imagine some deal on repatriation of cash / tax / employment commitments in the USA.....

Certainly today's falls in healthcare suggest that. Although after the ripples die away the investing trout will doubtless start feeding again.
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c brown on 12/01/2017(UTC), Guest on 13/01/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 16/01/2017(UTC)
Simon Owen
Posted: 12 January 2017 10:19:19(UTC)
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Yes agreed, just wish I'd timed my purchase the day after Trump's speech rather than a couple of days before, slightly better entry price. Long term buy though so not the end of the world :-)

Ironically couldn't decide between BIOG and IBT and plumped for BIOG. Typically IBT has held up better possibly because of the dividend.

Cheers

Simon
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dlp6666 on 13/01/2017(UTC)
David JP
Posted: 13 January 2017 08:20:25(UTC)
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To answer the original question about 'value' funds and trusts:

A number of funds claim to follow value investing principles, but each deserves careful scrutiny to see how that philosophy is interpreted and executed over time; also whether large cap, small cap, UK or global geographies predominate within the funds concerned.

Some examples include:

Schroder Recovery (there is a Schroder Global Recovery fund too)
The Schroder "Value Perspective" blog is worth reading:
Value Perspective blog

River and Mercantile World Recovery (there is a UK Recovery fund too)
See manager Hugh Sergeant on video here, March 2016:
World Recovery video

Church House Deep Value
Kennox Strategic Value
VT Price Value

The pairing of Georgina Hamilton/George Godber who had some success with Miton UK Value Opportunities are about to launch a new fund with a similar title with their new employers Polar Capital (Declaration of interest, I own a small number of shares in Polar Capital, itself proving to be an interesting 'recovery' stock in recent days).

I'm not as familiar with the investment trust offerings in this vein.

ETFs with a 'value' tilt might be worth exploring (search for 'value' on a site like justetf.com)

Vanguard Global Value Factor has performed well since inception in late 2015 (albeit currency-aided with a strong US weighting), but note it is 'active' rather than passive.
4 users thanked David JP for this post.
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Stanuk
Posted: 16 January 2017 09:02:19(UTC)
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I've been with Orbis Global Equity since 2002, it has value investing as it's core principle and has returned a little over 11% p.a. since I bought it despite all the ups and downs in the market.

It's Bermuda based and was started in 1989 by Alan Gray who learned his trade with Fidelity.

Bermuda might sound a long way away but even for an old pensioner like me the electronic dealing is simple and easy to do.

For value investors their web site is worth a look. Will just mention that the minimum investment is 50K.
srg751
Posted: 20 January 2017 17:00:18(UTC)
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I've just looked at Fundexperts current 'Dynamic fund' choice. It's the fund they recommend to buy for a six month period, based on momentum. Not surprisingly, it's a value orientated fund. Europe is somewhere I've avoided for a long time,but this warrants further examination
The fund is Neptune European ops.

http://www.fundexpert.co...anuary-2017_812.htm?pg=1
2 users thanked srg751 for this post.
Jeff Liddiard on 20/01/2017(UTC), chubby bunny on 20/01/2017(UTC)
chubby bunny
Posted: 20 January 2017 17:10:29(UTC)
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srg751;42078 wrote:

I've just looked at Fundexperts current 'Dynamic fund' choice. It's the fund they recommend to buy for a six month period, based on momentum. Not surprisingly, it's a value orientated fund. Europe is somewhere I've avoided for a long time,but this warrants further examination
The fund is Neptune European ops.

http://www.fundexpert.co...anuary-2017_812.htm?pg=1


Some big sector bets in that fund: 30% basic materials, 36% financials.
Jeff Liddiard
Posted: 20 January 2017 17:12:10(UTC)
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srg751;42078 wrote:

I've just looked at Fundexperts current 'Dynamic fund' choice. It's the fund they recommend to buy for a six month period, based on momentum. Not surprisingly, it's a value orientated fund. Europe is somewhere I've avoided for a long time,but this warrants further examination
The fund is Neptune European ops.

http://www.fundexpert.co...anuary-2017_812.htm?pg=1


srg thanks for that. I've nothing in Europe myself at the moment. It will be interesting to see what you (and others) think once you've done some research. Look forward to hearing more.
Big boy
Posted: 20 January 2017 21:46:36(UTC)
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When Walton ( one of the top managers of his time) was running British Empire he bought Investments Companies on massive discounts as did Bolton etc. This has always proved a successful way of investing but private investors don't seem to get it. If you have 2 investments ....one that rises by 10% per year for 3 years and one that's fallen by 10% per year they alway chose the one that gone up ....in other words they alway join the crowd.
King Lodos
Posted: 20 January 2017 22:14:38(UTC)
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Often the mistake's doing one and not the other..

The crowd's often a dangerous place to be, but it's where most money's made most years..

Value's gives you a margin of safety, but often necessitates waiting for trends to change – which can be an indeterminate wait .. It's good to be able to profit from optimism and pessimism .. It's almost strange to me how few fund managers (outside a handful of US hedge funds) seem able to do both.
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