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Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 12 January 2018 20:08:27(UTC)

Joined: 03/03/2017(UTC)
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jvl;55312 wrote:
dlp6666;55301 wrote:

It looks like Lazard's WTR does something very similar to MIGO, but also pays a 3.4% dividend:

http://www.lazardworldtr...wtf-factsheet-nov17.pdf



When I looked it up on HL, I got the message:

"By law certain stocks must have a Key Investor Information Document / Key Information Document available before investors can purchase them. The party responsible for publishing the documents have not made them available to Hargreaves Lansdown for this stock and so it cannot be purchased"

That would be the EU's Mifid II again, wouldn't it?

I can't wait until we're out (properly). Though it's a forlorn hope that this timid corporatist government's going to exit properly, removing nanny-state guff like this...


I think this legislation is good, I really had my eyes opened when I saw the real costs of one of the ITs I'm investing in and won't be buying anymore as a result.

Yes, there's been teething problems with HL, but I put that down to them being petty and inflexible rather than the legislation per se.

If a fund doesn't want to provide the information required, you have to ask yourself why.
chubby bunny
Posted: 12 January 2018 22:56:44(UTC)

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Tyrion Lannister;55317 wrote:
I think this legislation is good, I really had my eyes opened when I saw the real costs of one of the ITs I'm investing in and won't be buying anymore as a result.

Yes, there's been teething problems with HL, but I put that down to them being petty and inflexible rather than the legislation per se.

If a fund doesn't want to provide the information required, you have to ask yourself why.


I like it too. Most private investors will have no idea how much they are losing to charges on top of the published OCF. You shouldn't have to trawl through annual reports to find the true costs.
King Lodos
Posted: 18 January 2018 14:13:18(UTC)

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Stop Loss on HICL Infrastructure at 148.4.

Attractive 5.1% yield on something with low correlation to the market, but Carillion might be saying something about the health of the sector, while HICL's diversification away from PFI contracts seems to be shares (and are these companies I'd buy as a particular sector play at the moment?).

A Stop Loss is a nice way to avoid having to make the decision myself – but it's much nicer holding things I know I'd buy more of on price falls
1 user thanked King Lodos for this post.
dlp6666 on 19/01/2018(UTC)
lynne shaffer
Posted: 18 January 2018 14:20:07(UTC)

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I sold my Gateley yesterday for a 50% profit in 16 months as I've read a few lukewarm articles about these shares.

I thought 'strike while the iron is hot' so to speak!
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c brown on 18/01/2018(UTC)
Mr Helpful
Posted: 18 January 2018 15:19:32(UTC)

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King Lodos;55590 wrote:
Stop Loss on HICL Infrastructure at 148.4.
Attractive 5.1% yield on something with low correlation to the market, but Carillion might be saying something about the health of the sector, while HICL's diversification away from PFI contracts seems to be shares (and are these companies I'd buy as a particular sector play at the moment?).
A Stop Loss is a nice way to avoid having to make the decision myself – but it's much nicer holding things I know I'd buy more of on price falls


As we posted at the time, the kerfuffle during the Labour Party Conference, all as reported and analysed on CityWire, caused us to re-assess the sector and then dump HICL and INPP.
Did wonder about the HICL purchase by KL at the time of the purchase, but do not have the chutzpah of a few posters, to voice a contrary opinion.
Am always uncertain !!!

Still holding BBGI and 3IN as long term investments in this troubled sector, at about 80% full weighting. Hope would be able to add on any future serious price weakness; taking note of your last sentence !!!
Still quite fully valued IMHO as is the whole sector.
King Lodos
Posted: 18 January 2018 15:31:13(UTC)

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Well the Labour threat's overstated imo – and brought the yield and discount to an attractive level.

But Carillion's just the inherent riskiness of any investment .. Two bad points and it's stop loss time
2 users thanked King Lodos for this post.
Mr Helpful on 18/01/2018(UTC), dlp6666 on 19/01/2018(UTC)
dyfed
Posted: 18 January 2018 16:42:59(UTC)

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Just bought HICL and topped up JLIF which I bought recently at slightly below today's price.
I was involved in a couple of PFI/PPPs and find it hard to believe that any government buy-outs will do other than cause an early wind up at an advantageous price for the private-sector partners.
The risks I think are:
- the SPVs that run most PFIs often turn out to be unequal, with one company (e.g. the catering provider in a hospital) getting a worse deal than it's partners but no mechanism to share the pain. My guess is that Carillon's partners in established PFIs will find another player and so continue to service the contract and their capital debt (which is mainly what I am buying) albeit they may make a smaller margin
- early stage PFIs always hold higher risk: Carillon maybe looks to have been overweight here?
- investor sentiment drives down share price, but then I buy more, with higher divi and a discount rather than a premium

So buying into HICL etc at these prices is worth a modest punt, especially since I hold very little infrastructure - previously far too expensive for me - my cash reserves are high and it looks like good diversification.

But I could be completely wrong!
6 users thanked dyfed for this post.
Jim S on 18/01/2018(UTC), Mr Helpful on 18/01/2018(UTC), Tim D on 18/01/2018(UTC), dlp6666 on 19/01/2018(UTC), what me, worry? on 19/01/2018(UTC), Chris Howland on 21/01/2018(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 18 January 2018 17:25:38(UTC)

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Well I'm glad I set a stop and went out for a walk rather than sitting there hovering over the Sell button, thinking about losses.

What concerns me from recent days is that the media whips up so much anger over PFIs and offshore funds, that cracking down on it becomes an easy way for either government to score points
Mr Helpful
Posted: 18 January 2018 18:49:15(UTC)

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The National Audit Office seem to have been asleep in the passenger seat as Gordon "no more boom and bust" Brown, and politicians of other persuasions, drove Public Infrastructure down the private route.
Suddenly the NAO are awake with the realisation money can be borrowed and deployed at lower rates.

As investors in Infrastructure Funds, we could have told the NAO years ago. We as investors have been lapping up the yields and capital growth, amazed at the 'Alice in Wonderland' world; where the generous money coming into one pocket from the Infrastructure Funds has to be paid for with money leaving the other pocket in unnecessary taxation.

What started out as a sensible idea to delegate risk became over-employed dogma, and a means of concealing debt.

This all comes at a most unfortunate time for the Gov't, very much playing into Jeremy's hands.
4 users thanked Mr Helpful for this post.
Tim D on 18/01/2018(UTC), dlp6666 on 19/01/2018(UTC), what me, worry? on 19/01/2018(UTC), c brown on 22/01/2018(UTC)
xcity
Posted: 21 January 2018 17:42:49(UTC)

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Despite being bearish, I've bought a few recently.
VANL in the Carillion dip. Risky but probably not very correlated with market as a whole, and I will buy more on a substantial fall unless I think company has gone bad.
GSK for no very good reason. Relatively cheaper than it was, but I don't really like the company. But does mitigate some of my portfolio risks and is easy to sell.
BMS which I do like. But I can see that I might have to wait a cycle and a half for things to turn in its favour.
Fell Walker
Posted: 22 January 2018 20:43:51(UTC)

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Sold Aberdeen Asian Smaller Companies (AAS) lost patience with the mediocre performance. Any suggestions for a replacement Asian IT or fund? I'd prefer an IT with a discount possibly with some dividend. I do hold Edinburgh Dragon Trust (EFM) and Aberdeen New India (ANII) which I'm pretty happy with but would like a bit of a diversifier.
Mickey
Posted: 22 January 2018 20:53:57(UTC)

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Possibly Schroder Asia Pacific (SDP) might be of interest.
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Fell Walker on 22/01/2018(UTC)
Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 22 January 2018 20:57:56(UTC)

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Fell Walker;55784 wrote:
Sold Aberdeen Asian Smaller Companies (AAS) lost patience with the mediocre performance. Any suggestions for a replacement Asian IT or fund? I'd prefer an IT with a discount possibly with some dividend. I do hold Edinburgh Dragon Trust (EFM) and Aberdeen New India (ANII) which I'm pretty happy with but would like a bit of a diversifier.


An obvious one would be FAS, unless you're specifically looking for smaller companies. Dividend 1.3%, discount around 5%.
1 user thanked Tyrion Lannister for this post.
Fell Walker on 22/01/2018(UTC)
TJL
Posted: 22 January 2018 21:48:07(UTC)

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PHI.

(But no dividend.)
2 users thanked TJL for this post.
martin turner on 22/01/2018(UTC), Fell Walker on 22/01/2018(UTC)
martin turner
Posted: 22 January 2018 22:10:17(UTC)

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I also bought PHI quite recently (after selling FAS) because of the exposure to the big Chinese stocks.
I am also very happy with VOH - single country Vietnam but i feel i am benefitting from growing consumer demand in a take-off society. It is on c. 18% discount and paying 2.1 dividend. the charges are high but performance steadily upwards.
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Fell Walker on 22/01/2018(UTC)
Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 22 January 2018 22:20:21(UTC)

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...
Fell Walker
Posted: 22 January 2018 23:09:54(UTC)

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An interesting selection for me to investigate tomorrow, thanks all.
A few initial observations:-
Not sure I need more up US/UK exposure that SDP has.
FAS has a good long term track record, but has struggled over the last year, although that could just be a minor blip. I did look at it a while back but it SP was = to NAV, it has now eased back a bit.
I quite like the look of PHI, has the SP risen over the past month due to North & South Korea tensions easing? It's quite commited to S. Korea.
I presume you mean VOF Martin? I think I will split the proceeds from AAS into 2 IT's and open a position in VOF, I wish I'd had done it a year ago when I looked at it.
2 users thanked Fell Walker for this post.
martin turner on 23/01/2018(UTC), Mickey on 23/01/2018(UTC)
Paul Whitnall
Posted: 23 January 2018 00:49:06(UTC)

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Fell Walker;55784 wrote:
Sold Aberdeen Asian Smaller Companies (AAS) lost patience with the mediocre performance. Any suggestions for a replacement Asian IT or fund? I'd prefer an IT with a discount possibly with some dividend. I do hold Edinburgh Dragon Trust (EFM) and Aberdeen New India (ANII) which I'm pretty happy with but would like a bit of a diversifier.

JP Morgan Asian IT?
1 user thanked Paul Whitnall for this post.
S Dobbo on 23/01/2018(UTC)
martin turner
Posted: 23 January 2018 09:36:23(UTC)

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Yes, sorry, VOF.
jvl
Posted: 23 January 2018 11:18:57(UTC)

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Tyrion Lannister;55317 wrote:

If a fund doesn't want to provide the information required, you have to ask yourself why.


Because it's absurdly expensive to comply with the 1.4 million paragraphs of pointless guff and they already have enough investors from advanced countries that allow investors to think for themselves and companies to compete for customers without being dragged down by bureaucrats?

Can't you get a pretty good idea of costs from looking at OCR/TER, as well as annual management charges and whether a trust has performance fees? I find that I can.

Even if you want to improve transparency (a good thing although I'd argue that this isn't the EU's real intention), you don't need 1.4 million paragraphs of regulation to do it. Complying with all that will add costs!

For a small family trust I manage, I will now have to apply for a 'Legal Entity Identifier' and pay to maintain it every year just in order to rebalance 4 very basic ETFs. Increasing costs, reducing freedom.

KIDS look flawed too: https://moneyweek.com/mifid-ii-how-the-new-eu-rules-will-affect-you/
3 users thanked jvl for this post.
Tim D on 23/01/2018(UTC), dlp6666 on 23/01/2018(UTC), Mickey on 23/01/2018(UTC)
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