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jvl
Posted: 13 June 2017 15:12:24(UTC)

Joined: 01/04/2016(UTC)
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Big boy;47885 wrote:

I noticed yesterday the following..

SMT. -2.75%


I noticed that MNL held up much better than SMT, ATT and PCT even as tech shares fell Friday and Monday. Not sure why that was.
chazza
Posted: 13 June 2017 16:16:08(UTC)

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perhaps MNL benefitted by having the cushion of a much bigger discount? I mean, who would have been buying SMT, ATT and PCT at negligible discounts?
Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 13 June 2017 16:50:54(UTC)

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I don't understand all the hype on here with MNL. It's NAV is only marginally above it's value towards the end of 2012 and the dividend is a measly 0.6%.

I know past performance doesn't predict the future, it does though give a pretty good idea.

Dare I suggest that the discount is simply a reflection of it's poor value?

...or am I missing something?
jvl
Posted: 13 June 2017 17:11:42(UTC)

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You're missing something.

Top 10 holdings July 2012:
PZ Cussons plc
Smith & Nephew plc
Weir Group plc
Xstrata plc
Standard Chartered plc
Diageo plc
BG Group plc
Rio Tinto plc
BP plc
Syngenta AG Chemicals

In fact, there were no tech holdings listed at all in its portfolio in the 2012 annual report.

From http://www.mlcapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/92.pdf

I didn't buy it in 2012. I bought it when it had a lot of tech holdings I liked.
2 users thanked jvl for this post.
Tyrion Lannister on 13/06/2017(UTC), Mickey on 13/06/2017(UTC)
jvl
Posted: 13 June 2017 17:14:41(UTC)

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chazza;47909 wrote:
perhaps MNL benefitted by having the cushion of a much bigger discount? I mean, who would have been buying SMT, ATT and PCT at negligible discounts?


PCT and SMT are actually at premiums according to HL. PCT being at a premium surprised me.
Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 13 June 2017 17:19:55(UTC)

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jvl;47912 wrote:
You're missing something.

Top 10 holdings July 2012:
PZ Cussons plc
Smith & Nephew plc
Weir Group plc
Xstrata plc
Standard Chartered plc
Diageo plc
BG Group plc
Rio Tinto plc
BP plc
Syngenta AG Chemicals

In fact, there were no tech holdings listed at all in its portfolio in the 2012 annual report.

From http://www.mlcapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/92.pdf

I didn't buy it in 2012. I bought it when it had a lot of tech holdings I liked.


So, the argument is that it's similar to SMT but at significant discount?
1 user thanked Tyrion Lannister for this post.
Bellabeck on 14/06/2017(UTC)
lynne shaffer
Posted: 13 June 2017 19:08:48(UTC)

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Yes!
Ludditeme
Posted: 13 June 2017 19:40:19(UTC)

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I don't follow why MNL holds SMT (3.7%), please can anyone enlighten me? I'm not too keen on Yahoo either (3.5%).

Other than that, it looks like a good prospect at the discount. I keep thinking I should sell SMT while it's in heavy demand and swap to MNL in the short term - then come back in on a dip. I haven't though, and I can't quite make the move for some reason!
dyfed
Posted: 13 June 2017 19:53:51(UTC)

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MNL is a very small IT and does not have a loyal following (apart from afficionardos here), in contrast to SMT, so presumably more volatile in a Big Dip
I have reduced my SMT holding and increased MNL, very much as u r thinking of doing, but I wouldn't sell out of SMT...it might keep going up!
Re MNL's holdings there are a few oddities: u can always email the fund manager and give him your advice! Address on the monthly factsheet.....
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Ludditeme on 13/06/2017(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 14 June 2017 08:56:50(UTC)

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I assume SMT is full of bull market stocks....some of us remember the Tech boom and bust. Why is MNL on a discount difference of 20%... I know where I would put my money. ( I am not recommending them) Be careful as market in MNL is limited compared to SMT. Put in TEST buy this morning and markertmakers wanted small premium for Investment of £11/-. or £11k as some of you prefer.

I see the NAV of SMT has been underperforming the share price in recent times.
3 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Bellabeck on 14/06/2017(UTC), Mickey on 14/06/2017(UTC), Sara G on 15/06/2017(UTC)
Bellabeck
Posted: 14 June 2017 09:28:22(UTC)

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With Macron riding high and Merkel likely to retain power in September I am looking again at European small caps. I think Money Observer flagged up TR European Growth ~IT last month. Any thoughts on this IT, currently 8% discount?
1 user thanked Bellabeck for this post.
c brown on 16/06/2017(UTC)
jvl
Posted: 14 June 2017 09:29:53(UTC)

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Tyrion Lannister;47914 wrote:
So, the argument is that it's similar to SMT but at significant discount?


Not quite. If you want to compare, it's more like ATT and PCT.

For me, SMT is different with its holdings in disruption, perhaps, rather than big everyday tech. So they hold things like Tesla, Illumina and an increasing percentage in small private firms that the others don't.
5 users thanked jvl for this post.
Bellabeck on 14/06/2017(UTC), Mickey on 14/06/2017(UTC), Tyrion Lannister on 14/06/2017(UTC), Jim S on 15/06/2017(UTC), c brown on 16/06/2017(UTC)
Mr Helpful
Posted: 14 June 2017 10:49:52(UTC)

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The investment clock seems to be stuck somewhere between 9 and 12.
So continued pruning this week, as some positions lift their heads above the parapet.

UK : VUKE
Global : VWRL, MYI, IVPG
Regions : VUSA, EAT, SOI, JEMI

Looking mainly to Bonds ST, esp USA to deposit the proceeds.
3 users thanked Mr Helpful for this post.
Mickey on 14/06/2017(UTC), Jim S on 15/06/2017(UTC), john_r on 15/06/2017(UTC)
S_M
Posted: 15 June 2017 08:18:22(UTC)

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Sold 50% of my ATT/SMT holdings today. Good time to take profits and perhaps invest in less volatile areas of the market, possibly diversify away from stocks.

I also noticed BTC/Etherium prices have collapsed today, if there is a bubble in Tech multiply that by 10 for Cryptos!
2 users thanked S_M for this post.
Mickey on 15/06/2017(UTC), Jim S on 15/06/2017(UTC)
john_r
Posted: 15 June 2017 13:02:55(UTC)

Joined: 18/06/2010(UTC)
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Ludditeme;47918 wrote:
I don't follow why MNL holds SMT (3.7%), please can anyone enlighten me? I'm not too keen on Yahoo either (3.5%).
Other than that, it looks like a good prospect at the discount. I keep thinking I should sell SMT while it's in heavy demand and swap to MNL in the short term - then come back in on a dip. I haven't though, and I can't quite make the move for some reason!


I sold my MNL holding this morning.
Yes discount is attractive but I'm not buying for discount, I'm buying for performance.
Since the Telegraph boost in March the MNL share price is down 0.2%.
Compare that over the same time frame with :
Fidelity Select Tech +10.1%
Monks +11.8%
Polar Tech +5.2%
Allianz Tech +9.8%
Scot Mortgage +14.8%
I think the problem with MNL is that it has a bit of a credibility drag.
History does matter.

3 users thanked john_r for this post.
Freddy4Skin on 15/06/2017(UTC), dyfed on 15/06/2017(UTC), Sara G on 15/06/2017(UTC)
jvl
Posted: 15 June 2017 15:01:53(UTC)

Joined: 01/04/2016(UTC)
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What about NAV performance in the same time?

MNL, PCT, ATT are all about the same, I think, up about 6%, with MNL being in the middle of those.

A credibility drag could just mean a better price opportunity. After all, how long can there remain a credibility drag if they continue to hold the same stuff and that stuff is performing? Intrinsically, what are you buying, the manager or the holdings?

On the other hand, if there's a tech crash, the way I see it is that MNL may not fall as much because it has a larger safety margin. That seemed to play out last Friday.
3 users thanked jvl for this post.
dyfed on 15/06/2017(UTC), john_r on 15/06/2017(UTC), Sara G on 15/06/2017(UTC)
john_r
Posted: 15 June 2017 15:18:47(UTC)

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Mr Helpful;47940 wrote:
The investment clock seems to be stuck somewhere between 9 and 12.
So continued pruning this week, as some positions lift their heads above the parapet.................Looking mainly to Bonds ST, esp USA to deposit the proceeds.


Received my annual statement for NS&I index linked savings (part of my Doomsday fund) this week . Wow - 3.51% tax free.
This is like the old days!
While we should survive a small bank rate rise when it comes - after that it will be fingers on the buttons for me. Until then I'm staying invested.
1 user thanked john_r for this post.
Mr Helpful on 16/06/2017(UTC)
Jim S
Posted: 15 June 2017 15:46:12(UTC)

Joined: 08/12/2016(UTC)
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jvl;47967 wrote:
What about NAV performance in the same time?

MNL, PCT, ATT are all about the same, I think, up about 6%, with MNL being in the middle of those.

A credibility drag could just mean a better price opportunity. After all, how long can there remain a credibility drag if they continue to hold the same stuff and that stuff is performing? Intrinsically, what are you buying, the manager or the holdings?

On the other hand, if there's a tech crash, the way I see it is that MNL may not fall as much because it has a larger safety margin. That seemed to play out last Friday.


I agree. If as an investor you think holding some 'big tech' companies long term as part of your portfolio is a good idea, MNL achieves this at a nice discount.

A couple of things might put me off MNL in future.
One is the manager making another poorly timed pivot into different investment theme. Hopefully he's learned his lesson by now.
The other would be if the MNL discount narrowed a lot. In that case it might make sense to switch into another Tech IT run by active manager with a better track record and a reputation for understanding the sector.

King Lodos
Posted: 15 June 2017 18:16:14(UTC)

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Arabella Tullo;47934 wrote:
With Macron riding high and Merkel likely to retain power in September I am looking again at European small caps. I think Money Observer flagged up TR European Growth ~IT last month. Any thoughts on this IT, currently 8% discount?


I still like Europe a lot .. I picked up Henderson European Smaller Companies because valuations were low not long back.

But as I was thinking of adding to holdings, I noticed valuations across Euro Small-Caps now seem to range from forward P/E 15 to 23, with the Henderson fund up around 18.

PEG ratios are still okay, but I don't think it's screaming value anymore .. Possibly quite vulnerable to a pullback on any bad news.
4 users thanked King Lodos for this post.
Guest on 15/06/2017(UTC), Mickey on 16/06/2017(UTC), Bellabeck on 16/06/2017(UTC), c brown on 16/06/2017(UTC)
Tyrion Lannister
Posted: 16 June 2017 00:21:44(UTC)

Joined: 03/03/2017(UTC)
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john_r;47969 wrote:
Mr Helpful;47940 wrote:
The investment clock seems to be stuck somewhere between 9 and 12.
So continued pruning this week, as some positions lift their heads above the parapet.................Looking mainly to Bonds ST, esp USA to deposit the proceeds.


Received my annual statement for NS&I index linked savings (part of my Doomsday fund) this week . Wow - 3.51% tax free.
This is like the old days!
While we should survive a small bank rate rise when it comes - after that it will be fingers on the buttons for me. Until then I'm staying invested.


My success story is still getting 3% from a 5 yr fixed rate cash isa with the Newcastle Building society, and I've still got a year and a bit to go. I opened the account at the point that fixed term rates peaked in Q4 2013.
1 user thanked Tyrion Lannister for this post.
dyfed on 16/06/2017(UTC)
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