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Archibishop's Last Word:Out view of elderly is a scandal
Prof Eman
Posted: 16 December 2012 12:31:40(UTC)

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He called for the elderly people to be viewed as "participants" in society rather than "passengers.
Agree or disagree?
Prof Eman
Posted: 18 December 2012 09:47:41(UTC)

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No views on this one?
Posted: 18 December 2012 16:13:28(UTC)

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My personal view is that the Church of England has no relevance to modern life, so I don't pay much attention to their views I'm afraid.

I'm not singling out the CoE - I have the same view of all religions.

Once the Church of England accepts all people as equal, regardless of gender or sexuality, they can lecture the rest of us on our attitudes. Until then, they should keep their views for church.
3 users thanked datamonkey for this post.
alan thorburn on 18/12/2012(UTC), Clive B on 19/12/2012(UTC), jeffian on 20/12/2012(UTC)
John Salmon
Posted: 18 December 2012 17:51:45(UTC)

Joined: 15/05/2012(UTC)
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The laws(articles) of the C of E are based on the Bible. The verse "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God,"
Jesus provides us with a wonderful way to escape consequences of our sins. In love the church longs to share the way of escape equally to all people of any age John
Posted: 18 December 2012 21:23:55(UTC)

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Er? CONFFA confesses that he doesn't know where this is going. What is John on about?? Has he descended from above (eg Mars?)?

And, datamonkey, whilst I tend to have the same view of religions as you do, it must nevertheless be said that the CofE etc do cater for an (existing) need. Yes, we can argue (as I am wont to do) that all wars emanate from religious strife etc, but if we had no religion what would all those believers hang their thoughts on - they would only start new 'religions', which may provoke further internicine strife. So, sometimes, better the devil you know ..., and most of the current religious believers are pacifist in nature and not doing anybody any harm, although, granted, extremists of all types attached to these religions are a worry.

As to the original question, ..... I'm not sure, but would tend to come down on the participants side, although undoubtedly there are a large number of passengers as well.
David Battersby
Posted: 18 December 2012 22:39:01(UTC)

Joined: 15/12/2011(UTC)
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Religions have been co-opted into political disputes, likewise science. Both Hitler and Stalin based their ideas on the irrelevance of the individual because evolution was only concerned with the development of the species, look what that led to! Evolution is probably correct but like religion it can be misused. I will try to learn truth whoever proclaims it, I am not so arrogant as to assume that only my tribe are right.
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 19 December 2012 00:28:55(UTC)

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What can old people actually do?

It is quite difficult for them to find paid work, even assuming that they are physically and mentally up to it. Voluntary work perhaps? Those who have younger relatives nearby can babysit and generally help out their families. But in our increasingly atomised society, most families are scattered to the four winds. In our paranoid age it would be difficult, or at least a bureaucratic nightmare, for the elderly to get involved with unrelated children or those classified as vulnerable adults. Which means all those who actually need help. Animal charities? Conservation might be a little too physical for people becoming frail. CAB?, Samaritans? All of these want volunteers who have the ability to learn, act responsibly and be reliable. Which is to say commitment.

Even being a good neighbour is something useful: but difficult in the modern environment. I have lived in the same street of forty houses for almost a quarter of a century. I have been inside four of the other houses in the street, only two in the last year. I know the names of seven people in the street (three of them recent immigrants from Poland who don't know not to talk to strangers :-). I contrast that with the road of 25 houses where I spent my first fourteen years. I remember the inside of eight of the houses and the names of every family that lived in every house. I also knew the names of all the local shop keepers and their assistants. This was not a country village but the suburb of a big city.

I know there has been someone next door for around three years. The same someone who plays loud music from time to time, either pounding Rock or lachrymose Country - always with the windows open to deafen the neighbours. Religious maniacs and student welfare officers knock at my door asking about him. One let drop that he has been banned from the local supermarket for "anti-social behaviour". Put that with the bouts of noise followed by long silences and I suspect that he is a manic depressive. Some Mormons called last week and, not finding him at home, tried to convert me to their particular brand of lunacy. They told me his name. I have never even seen him, let alone said hello. Sometimes I wonder: should I knock on his door and try to befriend him? But experience tells me that such activity is very draining. So, I put on my noise cancelling headphones and wait for him to move away with his music.

Prof Eman
Posted: 19 December 2012 23:28:08(UTC)

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I think the issue transcends religion, it is a matter of attitudes.
The real question to me is - Have we the right attitudes to older people, or do many of us see them as another class of spongers, to be demonised accordingly.
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