Share this page:
Stay connected:
Welcome to the Citywire Money Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error
A cash machine gives you free money: do you keep it?
+ Reply to discussion
Options
Victoria Bischoff (Citywire)
Posted: 08 March 2011 10:18:13(UTC)
#1

Joined: 08/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 96

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Imagine this. You stop by a cash machine to withdraw £20 and it spits out £40. You check and it definitely hasn’t debited the extra £20 from your account. Do you keep it?

What about if the cash machine accidently gave you an extra £50 or £100? Would you keep it then?

What if you knew that a particular cash machine was currently giving out double money? Would you use the cash machine in the hope that you get some ‘free money’ too? Would you tell you friends to get down there quick? Or would you report it?

This is the ‘moral dilemma’ hundreds of people faced in Sydney, Australia last week when queues of up to 50 people long started to form at cash machines around the city, after a technical glitch caused them to start dispensing free money.*

Knowingly helping yourself to money that doesn’t belong to you is clearly theft. But for many people when you’re not taking money from another individual but instead a huge corporation like a bank, this somehow makes it OK.

Let’s face it, the banks with their extortionate overdraft charges and million pound bonuses are not exactly flavour of the month right now, so it’s hardly surprising that Joe Bloggs feels more inclined to pocket the cash rather than hand it in.

But what do you think?

* http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12645719
Back to top Quote
Anonymous Post
Posted: 08 March 2011 11:44:40(UTC)
#2
Anonymous 1 needed this 'Off the Record'

Take it and give it to charity
Back to top Quote
Alan from Hampshire
Posted: 08 March 2011 11:56:15(UTC)
#3

Joined: 08/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1
The taxpayer bailed them out so they should get the bonus now the banks are making vast profits again. The banks aren't paying up, so the taxpayer should take the money however they can. No more immoral than the banks' bosses trousering millions.
Back to top Quote
Anonymous Post
Posted: 08 March 2011 12:01:54(UTC)
#4
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

Go into the bank, return the excess cash and tell them to sort out the cash machine. Any other action is plain wrong as well as illegal.
Back to top Quote
1 user thanked Anonymous for this post.
JB987 on 01/09/2012(UTC)
Clive B
Posted: 08 March 2011 12:38:47(UTC)
#5

Joined: 25/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348

Thanks: 76 times
Was thanked: 59 time(s) in 37 post(s)
I'm with Anonymous 2 on this - I'd give it back. Anything else is theft. Just as much as if you'd been in the bank, seen a teller counting money on the desk, then gone off to answer the phone and you took the money.
Back to top Quote
Anthony Tinslay
Posted: 08 March 2011 12:57:34(UTC)
#6

Joined: 05/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 10
Silly question and certainly no moral dilemma. Just go inside and hand surplus back. Anything else just goes to show how much you are a cheat and value integrity not at all.
Silly comment by Alan from Hampshire. Bonuses for some are big news now but just about equate for what many Football Premiership players receive for minimum effort. How can you compare the boss of a very large International company which employees tens of thousands of individuals with a star footballer who demonstrates his thuggish behaviour on the pitch and is nothing more than an ignorant upstart who might well otherwise be in prison. Both receive a similar income!!!
Back to top Quote
Clive B
Posted: 08 March 2011 13:05:35(UTC)
#7

Joined: 25/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348

Thanks: 76 times
Was thanked: 59 time(s) in 37 post(s)
Anthony - I agree with you 100% - there is no dilemma
Back to top Quote
Adam K
Posted: 08 March 2011 13:11:41(UTC)
#8

Joined: 18/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 31
Personally I'd keep the cash but I wouldn't go to a cash machine just because I heard that is what was happening.

At the end of the day...everyone is different and has different circumstances.
Back to top Quote
Hotrod
Posted: 08 March 2011 13:14:02(UTC)
#9

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 20
Hmm. Hypothetical , I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I have had two unsavoury experiences with cash dispensers to date, which involved the use of now obsolete machines. In the first case I was stopped in the street by a woman who had tried to make a withdrawal after me. She said the machine had not dispensed any notes, but that she had checked her bank balance on a another machine subsequently, which recorded that the amount had been debited. I told her that I had had difficulty using the machine because there was a long pause before the notes came out, and when they did, they were presented in an upward direction, edge on, which was not expected by an unfamiliar customer. I think she had walked away with the notes still in the slot. How she got on I don't know. All I could do was offer sympathy.
In the second case, I tried to use an in-store machine. It accepted my card details, returned the card, and began to dispense. However it spewed out pieces of torn up ten pound notes, accompanied by loud crunching and grinding sounds!! Again the transaction had been recorded and involved telephone calls and a letter before my money was reinstated. The next time I visited the store the machine was dismantled into a heap of parts and the poor mechanic was surounded by a lynch mob of angry customers!!
Back to top Quote
Ivor Nestegg
Posted: 08 March 2011 14:27:00(UTC)
#10

Joined: 16/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 45

Thanks: 1 times
I remember a similar case in the UK some years ago when the magazines containing the £10 and £20 notes were put in the wrong way round so that £10 came out as £20 and £20 came out as £10. Depending on how much you withdrew and the resulting combination of notes you could either be better or worse off.

But the bank knew who withdrew money and how much they took while the machine was faulty and it was not difficult for them to work out who received this "free money" and demand it back.
Back to top Quote
snoekie
Posted: 08 March 2011 16:31:17(UTC)
#11

Joined: 26/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120

Thanks: 18 times
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 13 post(s)
No dilemma, a mistake or malfunction occured and it is dishonest to take advantage of the mistake and it would be theft and theft. Just like leaving your car with the keys in and someone gets in and drives off.

Con men do this and most people want them prosecuted. What is the dfference.

Funny how many so called honest people would take advantage, and then claim later when caught they made a mistake. No they stole, and when prosecuted they face losing their jobs, possibly homes and other assets and/or estrangement from their families, and certainly when boasting about it, they give out the wrong message, crime pays, particularly if done by a parent.
Back to top Quote
U gauge
Posted: 08 March 2011 20:56:03(UTC)
#12

Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7
Taking money that doesn't belong to you is a crime.
Every transaction was recorded by the ATM and surveillance cameras.
Little chance of getting away with it, according to police and the bank.
2 arrested on the spot and charged with fraud others will follow.
Back to top Quote
U gauge
Posted: 08 March 2011 20:58:25(UTC)
#13

Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7
My advice: don't try it.
Back to top Quote
whizzywig
Posted: 09 March 2011 00:49:26(UTC)
#14

Joined: 31/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1
No-brainer..... it's not yours, do what Anonymous 2 suggests.

About 20 years ago, I went into my local Bank to withdraw £30 as I had left my cashpoint card at home.
The lass at the till did the necessary correct transaction and as usual, counted out the money on her work area.

She then handed me the residue of the bundle from which she'd taken the £30, either £70 or £170 - I don't think I was quite sure how much it was but it was a lot more than I'd expected. I stood there for a while, waiting to see if she'd noticed and after about 20 seconds she asked me if there was a problem.

My problem was whether to just point out what she'd done and hand it back, or whether to draw it to some-one else's attention, as who knows how many times she might have done this before.

It could be argued that I'd been given it, so end of story, but the bottom line is that it's a matter of conscience.
Back to top Quote
John Howard Norfolk
Posted: 09 March 2011 13:42:13(UTC)
#15

Joined: 09/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
It is dishonest to keep extra cash dispensed by the machine and I will not do it.

Any CItywire reader who acts otherwise is a thief. Furthermore, they will not "get away with it" as the bank operating the machine will know from the machine's records which customers used the machine at the time of the malfunction. I can assure you that although the bank will be powerless to both prove theft and require repayment, ultimately the bank will win. They will achieve this by keeping a record of this instance of assumed dishonesty and such customers will be given a "hard time" on any future occasion they seek their bank's assistance with either a loan or a dispute concerning charges.

Incidentally, it is most unlikely that it will be a machine "malfunction". The error normally occurs because a bank clerk has filled the £10 dispenser with £20 notes.

May I add, as a reitred former bank manager (in the days when it was an honourable profession and we also obtained professional banking qualifications), that I had a long memory for my customers who failed to honour their obligations. I used my memory to good effect in setting my charges!
Back to top Quote
Clive B
Posted: 09 March 2011 19:24:45(UTC)
#16

Joined: 25/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348

Thanks: 76 times
Was thanked: 59 time(s) in 37 post(s)
John Howard

I agree with you, keeping the money is wrong (theft in my mind). However, I think you're changing the question in a subtle manner, from "would you keep the money (on the assumption they can't track you)" to "-would you keep the money (but they will be able to find you)."

I'd hand the mony back even if there was NO way they knew it was me.

To me, an equivalent "dilemma" (except it isn't) comes from - you're on holiday, abroad say, in a restaurant you've never used before and won't be going to again. When the bill comes you notice they've left off a significant item, e.g. bottle of wine. Certainly the case that if you're paying cash, you can simply settle the (short) bill, leave and you've "got away with it".

Has happened to me a couple of times. If I notice, I tell them. It's the honest thing to do.
Back to top Quote
john
Posted: 11 March 2011 16:19:26(UTC)
#17

Joined: 05/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 9
Trouser it , we are ripped of enough by banks as it is. Time we got some of it back.
Back to top Quote
EA
Posted: 24 January 2012 16:31:51(UTC)
#18

Joined: 23/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 52

Thanks: 13 times
Was thanked: 23 time(s) in 14 post(s)
Pocket it? Unbeliveable!

I'd go into the branch and kindly let the lady/man know that I have extra funds I wish to pay in to my account! :-)

would I feel guilty? About as guilty as the chairman of RBS who is looking at a £1.5 million bonus!
Back to top Quote
Jay Hdhejk
Posted: 01 September 2012 10:09:50(UTC)
#19

Joined: 01/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2
Would I feel morally wrong robbing from somebody who has robbed me...not at all!!

If the machine is giving out cash and you could take it and not get in trouble then yes take it, these bankster have messed up the economy, they rig the markets, new scandals are coming out every day Barclays and libor rate fixing, jp Morgan and others price fixing on the silver market , insider trading, not one of the banks are clean and they are causing suffering around the world.

I got a call sometime back that one of the cash machines up London was giving out £20 so I went up there took out as much as I could I have 4 bank accounts so I spread it amongst them. I haven't heard anything !

The banks done care about you, they are only interested in making money at any cost, watch the film documentry bailout and you will see how criminal these banks are they knew what they were doing in regards to the financial crash and were selling deviates investments as sound investments but then betting they would fail as they knew they were sub prime investments disguised as triple A investments, they stole trillions no one went to jail???

To me it's like seeing somebody robbing your house and they have handfuls of you money and belongs there hands are so full they can nearly keep a hold of what they have as they make there escape, as they pass you they drop some notes you pick up the notes and hand them back to the theif the thief snacthes them back and doesn't even thank you!!


So I'm going to spend the money, you can give yours back!!
Back to top Quote
banjofred
Posted: 02 September 2012 07:54:39(UTC)
#20

Joined: 14/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 186

Thanks: 84 times
Was thanked: 71 time(s) in 43 post(s)
Another question on the same lines...

you find a wallet or purse obviously belonging to a pensioner. It contains £50. Do you take the money and throw away the pruse or make efforts to return the money.?

Some time ago i lost my wallet containing credit cards, d license and aobut £40. Someone haded it to the police and did not even give their name. I was pleased to retrieve my wallet. This alone, iepart rorm my own moral code, would mean I would do the same if I found money.

But................

What happens if you find a parcel with say £50000 in it, and no ID??? Stealing by finding, or
lucky you????
Back to top Quote
2 Pages12Next page
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets