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water meters good or bad,plus up to date comments regarding water.
BOB 2
Posted: 22 August 2012 22:02:28(UTC)
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this is some advice if your thinking of switching to a water meter from ratable value or you are thinking of buying a new or older house.
we downsized from a 4 bed house to a bungalow, as we are retired now,never thought how much water we were using in the house as we were on ratable value.
our new bungalow was on a water meter,as we are retired and spend a lot of the time in the house, we use lots of water a day,water is supplied by wessex water , on a water meter you pay for water you are using pluss a standing charge ,to maintain the meter& cost of taking the readings.your also charged for sewage charge this is based against the amount of water you use so if you used say 10 cubic mts of water your charged with sewage charge of 10 c.mts
pluss another standing chargefor sewage.and a small discount if your water from the gutters is going to a soakaway.our billis working out about around £18 to £20.a week=£936 to £1000 a year. not good.we dont use water in the garden,and toilet levels have been lowered. checked system no leaks pipe work ok to.
If you are thinking of changing to a meter.or moving house were there is a meter installed
think twice. if its only me ok. if its two or three of us your going to see a big difference in your water bills, retired people like us moving house suggest go for a older house were the
water bill is linked to the ratable value,then you can use as much water as you like,
IS THE SYSTEM FARE NO ITS NOT.

WATER METER CHARGES
: Ofwat > Household consumers > Your water bill > Metered charges
Metered chargesIf you have a water meter, you are a metered customer. This means you pay according to how much water you use. Your bill is usually made up of a:

standing charge
volumetric charge, which is measured in cubic metres (m3), 1m3 is the same as 1000 litres
The standing charge is fixed. It covers the costs to the company of reading and maintaining your water meter. The volumetric charge varies depending on how much water you use.

If you have a water meter and are having problems paying your bill you can be protected from receiving large water bills under the WaterSure scheme.

If you have a cesspool or septic tank you will probably also pay charges for tankered household waste.

Water charges
Paying for what you use means you are more likely to use water wisely. This means each water company should set the metered volumetric charge to recover the costs that it will spend over the longer term to meet demand. This will help the companies meet the environmental challenges that the water and sewerage sectors face.

The metered standing charge, on the other hand, should be no more than the customer-related costs for the unmetered service, along with the fixed costs associated with providing a metered service (for example, meter reading).

Average metered and unmetered bills (XLS) sets out average bills for each of the water companies for 2013-14.

Sewerage charges
In your bill, your water company will include charges for three main sewerage services. These are for collecting and treating:

foul sewage
surface water drainage (for run-off from rainwater that falls onto your property)
highway drainage (for run-off from roads and pavements)
In principle, if you can demonstrate that you do not receive one of these services (apart from highway drainage,) you may be entitled to a reduction in your sewerage bill.

Foul sewage
Your bill will include a charge for collecting and treating foul sewage.

Your company will usually base its foul sewage service charges on the volume of water recorded on your water meter.

Your company will apply an assumption about the amount of water customers use that does not return to the sewer (the ‘non-return to sewer’ allowance). If you return significantly less than the assumed amount to the sewer, you may be able to claim a reduction in your sewerage bill. You will need to contact your sewerage company for further details.

Surface water drainage
Surface water is the rainwater that drains from your property into the sewer. Your company collects and treats this surface water. There is a charge for this service.

You will pay for surface water drainage in your bill either:

as part of the volumetric rate
as a fee in the standing charge
through a charge based on the rateable value of your property, or
through a charge related to the type of property you live in
If you can prove that the surface rainwater from your property does not drain into the public sewer, you may be entitled to a rebate on your bill from your sewerage company. Your company will not normally backdate rebates for periods before the current charging year.

If you qualify for a rebate you will receive it through a lower charge. The level of rebate can be found in your sewerage company’s charging scheme. Find out more about surface water drainage rebates.

Highways drainage
Companies treat water that falls onto the public roads and drains to the public sewers and collect a charge for this. The costs of this highway drainage service are not related to the amount of water that you use or to the value or size of your property, so there is no particular way of recovering these costs. Highway drainage benefits everyone who uses the road network either directly or indirectly. As a result, there is a case for recovering the costs of this service from highway authorities or from road users. At present, however, the law prevents this.

Your charges for highway drainage can be found in your company’s charges schedule.



REF. UNMETERED /RATEABLE VALUE CHARGE. OFWAT

You are here: Ofwat > Household consumers > Your water bill > Unmetered charges
Unmetered customerIf you do not have a water meter, you are an unmetered customer. Your bill is not based on how much water you use.

Your bill is usually made up of a:

fixed charge (or ‘standing charge’), which covers things like billing and customer service costs
charge based on the rateable value of your home.
As an unmetered customer, you may save money on your bill if you switch to a water meter.

Your water company can advise you if you may be able to save money by switching to a meter. Some companies’ websites have on-line calculators. The Consumer Council for Water have a spreadsheet calculator on their website.

Sewerage charges
Some people have the same company for both water and sewerage services, while others have a different companies for water services and for sewerage services. In your bill, your sewerage company will include charges for three main sewerage services. These are for collecting and treating:

foul sewage
surface water drainage (run-off from rainwater that falls on your property)
highway drainage (run-off from roads and pavements)
If you can demonstrate that you do not receive one of these services (apart from highway drainage), you may be entitled to a rebate on your bill.

Foul sewerage service
Your bill will include a charge for collecting and treating foul sewage. If you do not have a water meter, your company will usually use a fixed charge for sewerage based on the rateable value of your property. You can find further details on our unmetered foul sewerage service charges page.

If you have a cesspool or septic tank you may pay charges for tankered domestic waste instead of a foul sewerage charge.

Surface water drainage
Surface water drainage occurs when rainwater from your property drains into the sewer. Your company collects and treats this surface water. There is a charge for this service.

You will pay for surface water drainage in your bill in one of two ways, either through a:

fee in the standing charge, or
charge based on the rateable value of your property
If you can prove that the surface rainwater from your property does not drain into the public sewer, you may be entitled to a rebate on your bill from your sewerage company. Your company will not normally backdate rebates for periods before the current charging year.

If you qualify for a rebate you will receive it through a lower charge. The level of rebate can be found in your sewerage company’s charging scheme. Find out more about surface water drainage rebates.

Highway drainage
Companies also treat water that falls onto the public roads and drains to the public sewers and collect a charge for this. The costs of this highway drainage service are not related to the amount of water that you use or to the value or size of your property, so there is no correct way of recovering these costs.
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Guest on 14/02/2013(UTC), Guest on 28/04/2013(UTC)
jeffian
Posted: 22 August 2012 22:34:51(UTC)
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Something doesn't sound right. According to Wessex Water's website, a £1000 annual charge would require the use of 250m3.

http://www.wessexwater.c...ifier=id&itemid=220

That's 1057 gallons per week, equivalent to over 70 average baths. You're either very clean or have 8 people living on your spare room that you didn't know about.
1 user thanked jeffian for this post.
ljmuk on 19/04/2013(UTC)
John Robinson
Posted: 23 August 2012 09:50:59(UTC)
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I have to agree with jeffian.
Also retired I am saving a bucket by being metered since 3 years ago.
Wish I had changed earlier.
Currently pay about £24 per month for 2 persons usage in the house.
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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC)
ian humphries
Posted: 23 August 2012 11:18:25(UTC)
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You want to move to Yorkshire Water.

£20 per month for a single person, no garden.

By the way, it's "Fair" not "Fare". Fare is something you give to the ticket collector

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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC), claudescott on 26/01/2014(UTC)
Mark22
Posted: 23 August 2012 14:00:28(UTC)
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Agree with all the comments here. Severn Trent £29 per month 2 retired people large garden (with pond and greenhouses).

The only thing that Severn Trent didn't tell us when we transferred was that the payments were 12 months of the year not 8 as it was under the rateable value scheme.

I suggest you look for leaks.
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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC)
White Stick follower
Posted: 23 August 2012 15:44:41(UTC)
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I changed to a water meter several years ago. My wife live in a detached 4 bedroom house,we have a large garden with flowers,shrubs,lawns etc,a greenhouse,1,000 gallon fish pond which needs an annual clean out, and topping up from time to time, 2 cars which get washed sometimes, a conservatory which needs an annual clean, a water softener which uses about 30 gallons per recharge,twice a week, and a power shower. I pay £22 per month to South East Water, including Thames for sewage. I get the discount as surface water goes to soakaways.

I am saving easily 30% over my bills against the Rateable value, as indeed is my neighbour, who followed my recommendation. As far as I am concerned I would suggest a water meter every time.
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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC), Guest on 14/02/2013(UTC)
jeffian
Posted: 23 August 2012 16:17:35(UTC)
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Bob2,

As I said at the outset, it sounds as if something isn't right and subsequent posts seem to confirm that. I wondered if you were a particularly heavy user (garden watering?) but the last post seems to confirm that even this is unlikely to drive consumption up to the levels you appear to be being charged for.

Try turning off all taps and water-consuming devices in the house, lift the cover on the water meter (just requires a 't' bar or screwdriver) and see if it is going round. If it is, then you have a leak or other problem. Talk to your water supplier about it; they're usually quite helpful.
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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC)
White Stick follower
Posted: 23 August 2012 18:00:48(UTC)
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Some meters are on the stopcock at the boundary, others, as is mine are on the rising main,in my case under the sink. This has an electronic link to a reader affixed to my wall on the front of the house. The meter reader only needs to pass by with some form of reader to scan the remote transmitter. It is accurate, as I have checked the visual digital reader plumbed in the rising main.In fact I used to check the data regularly, but now I don't bother as I have collected enough information to know what I use, and thus if anything is out of kilter I shows up immediately on receipt of my half yearly statement.
So, as suggested I would carry out a few checks, but bear in mind that a trickle is probably to faint to register on the meter, so that would not distort the figures. Do you have a shared supply with another property by any chance? If so, unless the meter is fitted sufficiently far along the supply line you might be paying someone else's bill as well as your own! Another possibility is that your water company has screwed up its recording and that your account belongs to a totally different client, say a launderette? Your bills should be no more than around £20 per month which, incidentally I note is what you are paying per week. Has the accounts section screwed up?
1 user thanked White Stick follower for this post.
BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 23 August 2012 20:52:25(UTC)
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Thanks everybody for your answers,just for your ref.1 cubic mtr.of water =1000 lts or220 gallons
how i worked out the price cost per Ltr of water taken from bill
this was for 81 days used 37 c.mts price p.c.mtr=2.0539 total cost=£75.99
standing charge is £19 year divide by 365=.0520547p per dayx81= £4.22
sewage charge . 37 c mts.at £1.7766 pc mtr.total cost =£65.73
sewage standing charge=£46 year div.by 365=.1260273p dayx81=£10.21
less discount of 5% water not returned to drains =3.29cc
total cost for 81 days =£152.86
we used at that point 37,000 LTS in 81 days
£152.86 divide by 37,000= .0041313 of a p. per ltr
over the last 6 weeks i have been taking meter readings same day/same hour
worked out we used 23,670 lts divide by 6= average of 3945 lts per week
3945x .0041313p=£16.30 a week x 52=£847.49 year
yes we have cut down it was approx £19.00 a week at one time
we are classed as med. to heavy ushers.
with the price hike in april 2013 i reacon our bill will be around £900.00
sorry about the spelling ,improving even at 65
ps.we have had two leak tests done by w.water both ok, no leaks
i put it down to we are both there 7 days a week flushing,washing,laundry.
grand children, showers,water pressure is very high,
i suppose we will have to live with it,can't see us moving any more
thanks bob.
hopalong cassidy
Posted: 25 August 2012 08:32:20(UTC)
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Hi Ian H.
It is ok to b the kleverrist pearson in the rooomm but it is not ok to teell every onne youu arre.
Typing errors should not be corrected not even to family. So be kind to people.
Be happy
Paul
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ljmuk on 19/04/2013(UTC), Hilary hames on 06/11/2013(UTC)
White Stick follower
Posted: 28 August 2012 17:09:02(UTC)
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Well Bob 2, I am sure that you have diligently recorded your usage, but I have just looked at my water bills, and I see that last 6 months account records our usage as 54 cu metres. This has crept up over a few years from around 46 cu metres. We are classed as low users- indeed SE Water has checked its meter since installed and found it OK. Has your water company checked the function of your meter, as opposed to merely checking for leaks? Admittedly we don't have grandchildren round much these days, as they are teenagers. I admit that my granddaughter (15 yoa) likes to stand under the shower for ages, as she does at her home which is not on a meter, and where she remains oblivious to the electricity she is using, but her visits are only a couple of times a year.
Obviously your usage seems extraordinarily high and, on the face of it, your circumstances do not seem to justify it. But they say that figures can't lie, but can they? Your usage may be accurate but I find them troubling. Not mu problem you may say, that's true, but I hate to think of two retired folk, as my wife and I are, paying more for anything than absolutely necessary.
My standing charges are £21 pa, to SE Water, with £52 pa for waste water to Thames, and £16 pa reduction granted for surface water to soak away.
I hope this helps.
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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 28 August 2012 23:55:56(UTC)
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[quote=White Stick follower;15991]Well Bob 2, I am sure that you have diligently recorded your usage, but I have just looked at my water bills, and I see that last 6 months account records our usage as 54 cu metres. This has crept up over a few years from around 46 cu metres. We are classed as low users- indeed SE Water has checked its meter since installed and found it OK. Has your water company checked the function of your meter, as opposed to merely checking for leaks? Admittedly we don't have grandchildren round much these days, as they are teenagers. I admit that my granddaughter (15 yoa) likes to stand under the shower for ages, as she does at her home which is not on a meter, and where she remains oblivious to the electricity she is using, but her visits are only a couple of times a year.
Obviously your usage seems extraordinarily high and, on the face of it, your circumstances do not seem to justify it. But they say that figures can't lie, but can they? Your usage may be accurate but I find them troubling. Not mu problem you may say, that's true, but I hate to think of two retired folk, as my wife and I are, paying more for anything than absolutely necessary.
My standing charges are £21 pa, to SE Water, with £52 pa for waste water to Thames, and £16 pa reduction granted for surface water to soak away.
I hope this helps.[/quote

thanks very much for your answer w.s.follower.
we are going to try and reduce our water usage to 3300 lts a week thats 471 lts a day,
171,600 lts a year at a rounded up cost of .0041313p a ltr= £708.93 year
compared to your 54 c.mts ours will be almost 86 c.mts in 6 months
we have two toilet rooms,and a bath and seperate shower room,the washing machine is used quite a lot,being a retired engineer,i have checked and double checked to see if there is any leaks,i did beleve a one time we were supplying some one else but no ,as soon as i turn off the
house stop cock ,and check the meter its stationary ,we must be using that amount of water.
i have also checked the meter with the stop cock on and all taps turned off still no movment in the meter,the trouble is we have been spoilt 30 odd years in our old house no meter ,water usage was not a problem, thats why i started this topic to worn people changing from ratable value to metered water, you mite be in for a surprise when the bill comes in.good luck & thanks.bob
White Stick follower
Posted: 29 August 2012 11:00:57(UTC)
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Hello Bob 2,
If the usage is as described and you have done all the checks that can be done, and assuming that the meter is accurately recording the through flow,there is little that I can add,other than to correct my consumption which has risen from 52 cu meters in the fist half year after Feb 2011 when I had the meter installed, to 54 cu meters as at the last reading. My charges over the period have risen from £14 per month to the current £22,although of course the new rates have yet to kick in.

Oh and by the way I have pressure washed 90 sq meters of sandstone 3 times in the 18 months- only because initially to remove algae and latterly I have been waiting to apply a sealant and the weather turned against me each time. However at least I have now got the sealant applied following the recent hot weather. I admit we do each have nightly showers as opposed to baths and that despite two bathrooms and a cloakroom we don't use any more water in consequence. I am told that the dish washer uses less than hand washing up, that might be right, I don't know.

All that I can see is that as far as I can tell all those on water meters have noted much reduced bills, but, of course for every rule there is an exception.

Kind regards & best wishes in your water usage reduction campaign.
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BOB 2 on 05/09/2012(UTC)
BEANOL
Posted: 30 August 2012 13:02:50(UTC)
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HI,
I HAVE WHAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE LOWEST WATER USAGE RATES IN THE COUNTRY, MY BILL, RECEIVED TODAY READS, FROM 6TH MARCH TO 23RD AUGUST----£6.42. FOR WATER, NOT BAD YOU MIGHT SAY, UNFORTUNATELY, WE (ON OUR SMALL MOBILE HOME PARK) RECENTLY SWITCHED TO METERS.
WE ALREADY HAD PERFECTLY ADEQUATE METERS ON EACH OF THE FIVE HOMES BUT UNITED UTILITIES WOULD NOT AGREE TO US KEEPING THEM SO THEY INSTALLED THEIR OWN, REMOTELY READ METERS AT A COST OF £50 EACH PER YEAR, AND TO RUB SALT IN THE WOUND, OUR FIRST BILL WAS ESTIMATED SO, ALL IN ALL, I WOULD SAY NO, METERS ARE NOT ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA.
INCIDENTALLY, WHERE DOES 'IAN HUMPHRIES' COME FROM ?, BECAUSE IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS WE GIVE OUR MONEY TO THE CONDUCTOR, NOT THE TICKET COLLECTOR.
WE CAN ALL MAKE MISTAKES NOW AND THEN, EVEN EYE ADMMITT TWO MAKIN A MISTEAK WUNCE, LIGHTEN UP IAN.
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BOB 2 on 30/08/2012(UTC)
Recently Redundant and Retired
Posted: 31 August 2012 19:56:08(UTC)
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Hi Bob2.....
As a general rule of thumb, you pay £1 per tonne to have the water delivered to your tap and £1 per tonne to have it removed via sewage. 1tonne is 1000L or 1m^3. An average household should be using about 120-150 m^3 per year. So if you're on mains drains this would cost £240-£300 p.a. If you're on private drainage you can halve this.
Much more than this and you either have a leak between the meter and house or there's been some mis-reading or taps left running (600lph from a 1/2" tap at 40psi).
Most water companies will let you know if your usage is higher than expected or changes suddenly.
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White Stick follower on 01/09/2012(UTC), BOB 2 on 03/09/2012(UTC)
White Stick follower
Posted: 01 September 2012 09:09:34(UTC)
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A helpful response from RRR. Based on the stats provided our usage at around 108 cu metres seems pretty much in line,although a bit below average, but then there is only my wife & I in the house normally.
These figures do underpin the concern that something is wrong somewhere at BOB 2's place, and given all the detailed work he has done, apart from very high usage it suggests that it may be the meter itself which is at fault. Utility companies are notoriously reluctant to admit faults in their equipment, just as 'phone companies try hard to allege that every 'phone fault is the responsibility of the customer, whereas in over 90% of cases, according to a BT Outreach engineer I know, it is the service provider's equipment that has failed.
Dennis .
Posted: 03 September 2012 14:35:36(UTC)
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30 years ago we moved to a small village in Dorset, the water was supplied by the local Landowner (a big "feudal" estate) who owned the local water company. I was amazed to find that our water bills were about 10% of what we had been paying in our previous (smaller) house near Bath. However, after about 5 years the water company was taken over by Wessex Water and loh and behold the bills rocketed to "normal" levels! I wish we could go back to serfdom.
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BOB 2 on 13/09/2012(UTC)
susiesss
Posted: 03 September 2012 19:53:58(UTC)
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I think if you live in a large house and there are only two of you, water meter wins hands down but beware if you have a power shower and stay in it for 10 mins or more. Power showers use such a lot of water.

If you are a young family with children, it definately pays to stay on rateable value even if you are in a very small house.
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BOB 2 on 03/09/2012(UTC)
BOB 2
Posted: 03 September 2012 21:08:36(UTC)
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hi everbody, I have managed to get the water company to plumb in a new water meter
two feet from were the water mains enteres the house in the front garden,as before it was
sited in a car park on a new housing estate built the other side of my back garden.i now know
the meter is calibrated correctly,i am going to check it weekly and see if it makes a difference,
and check it for movment with all taps off , no header tank to worry about now i just installed
a condencing combi boiler,i let you know how i get on in a couple of weeks.thanks
White Stick follower
Posted: 04 September 2012 09:24:07(UTC)
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Well done, BOB 2.

At least you will have an opportunity to compare consumption. If, by any chance your old meter was inaccurate, any computed overcharge repayments are likely to be limited to 2 years worth.
As it happens I had my half yearly statement in last week. This shows my household daily consumption as 0.31 cu meters, which includes the exceptional usage such as power washing paving. The exceptional usage will probably trigger a rise of about £4 per month next year, before settling back to the established usage levels.

Susiess is right re power showers, but my wife & I use ours for about 4/5 minutes each per night- and not necessarily on full blast. Fortunately we don't have any teenagers here,apart from very occasionally, as they seem to love staying under the shower for ages.

Just as an aside when I have visited US, I have found power showers in hotels so forceful as to nearly knock me over, and feeling battered when I get out. Lord knows how much they use.

Anyway good luck BOB2. It would be interesting to see how things progress if this site stayed active for long enough.
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BOB 2 on 04/09/2012(UTC)
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