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Are private toll roads the answer to Britain’s congestion problem?
Ted Waters
Posted: 31 August 2010 18:10:23(UTC)
#21

Joined: 10/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

The issue isn't really whether a private toll road is better / worse than a 'free' alternative, but that road pricing based on traffic levels is the only practical way of minimising peak hour congestion delays.

In general building more roads in not the answer as they too become congested (just look at what's happened in America) and the quality of life in towns and cities reduces as the proportion of the land used for roads increases.

We just have to decide between road pricing or gridlock.
Philmo
Posted: 31 August 2010 22:15:55(UTC)
#22

Joined: 12/05/2006(UTC)
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The provision of the odd toll road connected to a non-tolled system will almost invariably lead to a quirky situation, with a wide spread of satisfied/dissatisfied users.
And clearly tolling of the whole system is not a cost effective answer - because it will cost too much to install, not to mention operate. Don't we have enough civil servants collecting from the road user already?
The only advantage of a national tolling system is to facilitate differentiall charging of drivers and price the congestion zones out of existence. ie force the attraction to drivers [whether it be work or play] to re-establish itself elsewhere, which is what our town and country planners should have achieved in the first place!
It's time these guys stopped nit-picking over brick colours and building lines and did some pro-active and constructive planning of our environment.
Talking of which - clearly the most cost effective overall congestion charge, combined with enviro improver is the raising of fuel tax.
Jon
Posted: 01 September 2010 08:46:41(UTC)
#23

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
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Philmo is right. Abolish car tax and tax fuel to compensate. This will fairly make the polluter pay and save some DVLA costs which add nothing to the UK economy. It will also encourage drivers to drive more efficiently.

Road tolls are expensive to implement and run, and, again the costs do not add value. In fact to the extent that we import the components it will damage the UK They will also encourage drivers to use alternative routes through urban areas, causing more congestion, pollution and accidents.
Philmo
Posted: 01 September 2010 10:17:18(UTC)
#24

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Thanks Jon
Re Car tax - I do think that could be usefully retained at a suitably low flat rate to keep DVLA going as I think they do provide an increasingly useful resource to police, particularly in the fight to eliminate uninsured use by lowlife and the use of cars damaged beyond safe levels. The online access to their database is pretty slick.
They also maintain the motoring convictions records which, like them or not, do help most of us to self discipline our driving standards, beyond the levels that just fines and gatzos do.
Jeremy Bosk
Posted: 01 September 2010 13:52:47(UTC)
#25

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Toll roads are a tax on poorer motorists. If you want to reduce congestion, taxing the poor out of their cars is as good a way as any. The rich have the political clout to stop any attempt at rationing other than by price. Building more roads just encourages more travel and pollution.

Proper maintenance of the existing roads and ensuring that all new roads have common access for utilities so they are not dug up by gas, electricity, cable TV, water and telephone one after the other would also save money in the long run. Budget slashing exercises like the present idiocy make for patches on patches and ultimately higher cost to taxpayer and motorist alike.

Better, affordable and integrated public transport is essential for the one third of the population who have no regular access to cars. More use of public transport rather than private also reduces pollution. Yes I know that many people have to commute to jobs in places that are not easily reached by public transport. That is why I said "integrated and affordable". Renting instead of owning housing also makes sense in a world where jobs come and go faster than Big Brother house mates.
Jon
Posted: 02 September 2010 00:19:03(UTC)
#26

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Hi Philmo

I did not advocate abolishing the DVLA. As you rightly point the insurance and MOT databases are vital for the police to check - so the ancient purpose of car tax to ensure one had the valid documents is now pointless. And of course it costs us time to obtain the car tax and employs many DVLA staff processing this useless document. Abolition would also remove the unecessary policing of this item.

Have you tried to buy a car when the post office is shut ?
Philmo
Posted: 02 September 2010 10:16:19(UTC)
#27

Joined: 12/05/2006(UTC)
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Hey Jon!
I don't believe I suggested your advocation of DVLA abolition. What I did suggest was the car tax continue at a low level. [to support the DVLA only.]
Yes systems could be devised which enable the paper document to be dispensed with, but car registration/taxation for road use process or the sorn alternative must clearly stay as part of the illegal use prevention system. The paper process does however provide DVLA with quite a bit of useful crime prevention data and I would suggest the online alternative might not be as straightforward as you would like to think, nor accessible to many car owners.
BTW - post offices have no function with regard to the car purchase process itself and it's not an offence to drive a car not registered in your name.
Apologies to all for hi-jacking the thread!
Jon
Posted: 02 September 2010 12:27:40(UTC)
#28

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
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At the risk of boring the other contributors to this thread which was originally on toll roads.........

Hi Philmo

The cost of adminstering road tax is pointless - any residual functions of the DVLA could be financed from general taxation as that is where fuel duty goes, or, more simply, from the charges for new licences..

Sorn would be irrelevant. If a car is on the road then ANPR can spot if they have no insurance or MOT. So another irritant would go - quite a few people have been fined as the DVLA have mislaid their SORN notifications. The DVLA mak £4m pa on premium phone lines when people are chasing their documents etc.

Several countries do not have an excise duty licence. I strongly disagree that the paper process provides anything which other checks cannot, and processing all of the reminders, payments, tax disc issues, SORN and so on is a large cost. Reducing the tax charge would do nothing to eliminate this.

Incidentally this would be a huge boost to haulage and coach operators who may often have spare capacity.

As an commercial accountant I am all for simplifying processes and cutting out unnecessary costs and any procedures which do not add value to GB Ltd. We have far too many public employees pushing paper for historic and PC reasons, not to mention the red tape the public and companies suffer as a consequence. Let these employees join the general labour pool to, ultimately, join useful organisations which do add value.

But to come back to the issue of toll roads - there are those who want GPS systems to toll all roads. I believe the reason is that then the huge costs would not look so bad compared with the revenue. But the real issue is that we should not spend the huge costs in any event (much on imports of components) and find other ways of deterring excess vehicle usage.
Philmo
Posted: 02 September 2010 21:32:42(UTC)
#29

Joined: 12/05/2006(UTC)
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Jon - We appear to have 99% agreement!

So I'm calling it a day!!!
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