Share this page:
Stay connected:
Welcome to the Citywire Money Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

Woodford Patient....
Hank Elvis Dobbs (texan)
Posted: 12 October 2017 20:32:17(UTC)

Joined: 19/08/2017(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 17 times
Was thanked: 28 time(s) in 17 post(s)
Sara G;51916 wrote:
Bill Fowler;50109 wrote:
Nearly all the shares I watch (I am all cash at the moment) are showing a small rise today except WCPT, looks like the series of bad news has knocked a lot of people's faith in Woodford as a share picker.


And so it continues... with almost everything else on the rise WPCT is now on a discount of 7% and the price is heading closer to its year low. Is this due to the recent loss of confidence in Woodford's funds generally, or is there some piece of news I have missed? If it is solely the former then I'd be inclined to see this as a potential buying opportunity - certainly if the discount went to double digits.



last time I looked... by far the largest shareholder was HL Nominees and wIth sentiment at such a low ebb with so many 'newbies' the stock overhang will continue for the forseeable.

It's rather inevitable that this fund will tread water at best for a while yet as the institutions that swerved the initial launch 'PATIENTLY' reel them all in ..all predicted by Cueball of course
1 user thanked Hank Elvis Dobbs (texan) for this post.
Sara G on 12/10/2017(UTC)
Mickey
Posted: 12 October 2017 20:41:52(UTC)

Joined: 21/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 343

Thanks: 858 times
Was thanked: 303 time(s) in 155 post(s)
Recently disclosed was that Jupiter had sold out entirely of Woodford funds that were held in their Jupiter Merlin Income, Growth and Balanced multi0manager funds. Several hundred million pounds sold.
2 users thanked Mickey for this post.
Sara G on 12/10/2017(UTC), Joe Soap on 13/10/2017(UTC)
Bill Fowler
Posted: 13 October 2017 07:28:33(UTC)

Joined: 16/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 11

Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Woodford was canned before the last crash for not joining in with the party so who knows?

As mentioned before am quite impressed with one of his investments, seedrs which has just raised 6m from the people who have been using its site - you can probably see his influence in their recently launched secondary market to buy and sell shares that have already been issued in various seed companies. Like a lot of stuff, a bit like pyramid selling but if it works...

Would like to see Woodford actually buying shares in Patient (assuming he is allowed) if there is such big potential in the shares. He was criticized for having too many of his staff working on Patient to the detriment of his other funds, which sounds good to me.

Big downside for me is that I think a big general crash is on the way and do not see these shares doing well if they can't even tread water at the moment. On the other hand, Woodford will want them at around 130p just so they can get their investment charges working in their favour... so may be time to dip back in.
1 user thanked Bill Fowler for this post.
Sara G on 13/10/2017(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 13 October 2017 09:56:19(UTC)

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 154

Thanks: 572 times
Was thanked: 194 time(s) in 93 post(s)
Bill Fowler;51928 wrote:
Would like to see Woodford actually buying shares in Patient (assuming he is allowed) if there is such big potential in the shares. He was criticized for having too many of his staff working on Patient to the detriment of his other funds, which sounds good to me.


Well the directors seem to have bought this year's earlier weakness. Not sure how much of that is just expected as "part of the job" though. In theory I imagine the directors could fire the manager and hire someone other than Woodford (would probably have to look back at the prospectus to see what the arrangement is).

Bill Fowler;51928 wrote:
Big downside for me is that I think a big general crash is on the way and do not see these shares doing well if they can't even tread water at the moment. On the other hand, Woodford will want them at around 130p just so they can get their investment charges working in their favour... so may be time to dip back in.


Hmmm my worry would be more that if he really was desperate to magic a ~40% rise out of nowhere to reach 130p, he'll surely have to do something pretty spectacularly risky (like a gambler following a Martingale betting system). If I ever see headlines about WPCT betting big on cryptocurrencies, I'll know we've reached that point. Fortunately I think the man has more sense.

Wonder if it's conceivable that at some point an "activist" like Elliott could take an interest like they did with Alliance Trust.
1 user thanked Tim D for this post.
Sara G on 13/10/2017(UTC)
colin overton
Posted: 21 October 2017 08:15:15(UTC)

Joined: 26/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 182

Thanks: 44 times
Was thanked: 180 time(s) in 86 post(s)
Old Neil's pet project continues to slide. Down ~5% in the month and the discount widening, but NAV down as well. I saw another apologue from Old Neil, not sure which of his funds he was saying sorry for. The magic seems to have well gone now. Small company UTs still doing well in general. May sell, at a loss now, and reinvest into better managed, broader based small cos opportunities?
Micawber
Posted: 21 October 2017 09:33:45(UTC)

Joined: 27/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,562

Thanks: 628 times
Was thanked: 2180 time(s) in 858 post(s)
If you want UK/EU early stage companies, compare FPEO or the very recent RMMC with the lamentable performance of WPCT during a period when smaller companies have done exceptionally well.

I'll wait patiently until I see a consistent uptrend in WPCT before considering it against more successful alternatives in that area. I'm glad I sold my youngest's IPO stake.

I think Woodford became over-confident generally, and once isolated from the disciplines of Invesco-Perpetual (and the proximity of several high powered colleagues to bounce ideas off) he began applying criteria other than strict investment criteria - e.g. 'helping to support British innovation' &c &c.
2 users thanked Micawber for this post.
Tim D on 21/10/2017(UTC), colin overton on 21/10/2017(UTC)
8 Pages«Previous page678
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets