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Jim S
Posted: 01 June 2017 16:44:42(UTC)
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A few years ago I bought PIN, then later topped up (accidentally) with its PINR equivalent. I still hold both.

I know this is a stupid question, but can anyone explain please how the redeemable shares differ from the normal ones? Eg if they were redeemed, presumably you would you get the share price back, so not exactly a disaster, would this explain the difference in NAV discount?

PIN & PINR have very similar sp performance. Both discounts have narrowed, but relatively the discount on PINR still seems surprisingly high. Private equity still seems to be the most (only?) undervalued sector in a generally high market.
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Ark Welder
Posted: 01 June 2017 19:55:29(UTC)
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The places to check for descriptions about share classes are the company's web-site or the annual reports.

From Note 13 in PIN's 2016 annual report:

Quote:
Redeemable shares rank equally with ordinary shares regarding dividend rights and rights on winding up or return of capital (other than a redemption or purchase of shares). The holders of redeemable shares have the right to receive notice of and attend all general meetings of the Company but not to speak or vote. Each holder of ordinary shares is entitled, on a show of hands, to one vote and, on a poll, to one vote for each ordinary share held.

The redeemable shares are redeemable at the option of the Company, at the prevailing net asset value per share, within 60 days following the end of each monthly NAV calculation date or within 60 days of any other business day which is determined by the Directors to be a NAV calculation date.
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Jim S on 02/06/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 27/06/2017(UTC)
Jim S
Posted: 02 June 2017 17:07:38(UTC)
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Thanks for the link to the pdf Ark, I've had a look

Is the 10% price difference justified/logical in your opinion, or a market anomaly?

The difference has been much lower historically, sometimes almost parity. From your quote, it sounds like the cheaper redeemable shares are better value. In the unlikely event you are forced to sell them at NAV, that would still be about 25-30% higher than current SP so not a bad outcome (assuming it doesn't go from discount to premium). Or am I missing something?

Presumably the quote below, also from note 13, is about buying back redeemable shares at their SP on the market, rather than 'redeeming' at the much higher NAV price.

During the year 1,900,000 (2015: 375,000) redeemable shares and nil (2015: 460,000) ordinary shares were bought back in the market for cancellation. The total consideration paid, including commission and stamp duty, was £22,022,000 (2015: £4,389,000) and £nil (2015:£5,799,000) respectively.


Sorry for all the questions, but I've been curious about the wide PINR discount for ages!
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Ark Welder
Posted: 02 June 2017 23:59:21(UTC)
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You'd have to dig out the launch documentation or similar on the redeemables to be see why they came into being. My *interpretation* is that they were launched as a method of raising finance whih would be used either for investment purposes or the repayment of short-term debt that had been taken out for that purpose. There have been redemptions in the past - and proper ones, rather than just buybacks which is to what your last paragraoh refers.


One thing to remember is that a discount can narrow because the NAV falls towards the shareprice rather than the other way round. It might even be possible that by the time that there is no discount, the shareprice is lower than when the shares were bought, meaning that they might be open to redemption at a lower price. Perhaps owning the ordinaries is seen as being 'safer' if investors are concerned about potential falls - only guessing, mind.

I have held PIN in the past, but I must confess that I didn't take much notice of the redeemables and can't remember what was said about them at the time.
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Jim S on 05/06/2017(UTC), dlp6666 on 27/06/2017(UTC)
Stephen B.
Posted: 04 June 2017 10:36:09(UTC)
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I have looked in the past, although in the end I didn't buy PIN at all (I have nothing against it but I went with other options). I think my conclusion was that the two classes are economically equivalent and the price variations between them are just random fluctuations. Often when you have two classes which are theoretically the same one will in practice always be cheaper, e.g. the Schroders non-voting share class (SDRC) is quite a bit cheaper even though the economic value is the same and for most investors, even most institutions, the voting doesn't matter much. However in this case there doesn't seem to be any big systematic effect - probably most of the trading is from institutions and they buy whichever is most available at the time.
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Jim S on 05/06/2017(UTC)
Jim S
Posted: 28 September 2017 08:36:07(UTC)
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News today thet PINR is being rolled into PIN, so PINR is up 6.5% :)

I could never really understand why PINR was so discounted in view of the Patheon team's very decent growth of its portfolio.

PINR is MIGO's 3rd biggest holding I believe
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Jeff Liddiard
Posted: 29 September 2017 15:39:00(UTC)
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Jim S;51486 wrote:
News today thet PINR is being rolled into PIN, so PINR is up 6.5% :)

I could never really understand why PINR was so discounted in view of the Patheon team's very decent growth of its portfolio.

PINR is MIGO's 3rd biggest holding I believe



Just seen yesterday's CityWire coverage which included:

'Pantheon requires shareholder approval at the end of next month for the restructuring to go ahead. If it eventually succeeds in joining the FTSE 250 it could leap frog Harbourvest Global Private Equity (HVPE), a £970 million rival that secured its promotion nearly two years ago after switching its main listing from Amsterdam to London and issuing a sterling share class'.

I see Sara G has PIN and that KL always advocates HVPE. There are of course other PE choices but which of those available does the team think is the best one and why?
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Jim S on 30/09/2017(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 29 September 2017 19:38:26(UTC)
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Jeff Liddiard;51542 wrote:
Jim S;51486 wrote:
News today thet PINR is being rolled into PIN, so PINR is up 6.5% :)

I could never really understand why PINR was so discounted in view of the Patheon team's very decent growth of its portfolio.

PINR is MIGO's 3rd biggest holding I believe



Just seen yesterday's CityWire coverage which included:

'Pantheon requires shareholder approval at the end of next month for the restructuring to go ahead. If it eventually succeeds in joining the FTSE 250 it could leap frog Harbourvest Global Private Equity (HVPE), a £970 million rival that secured its promotion nearly two years ago after switching its main listing from Amsterdam to London and issuing a sterling share class'.

I see Sara G has PIN and that KL always advocates HVPE. There are of course other PE choices but which of those available does the team think is the best one and why?



Nothing against HVPE but PIN is very well diversified, and at the time I bought it a couple of years ago it was described by one analyst as 'pregnant with potential' (!) based on the proportion of its investments that were approaching maturity, which certainly got my attention! Discount was (I think) around 28% too. I've since looked at HVPE but would prefer to build my stake in PIN before buying another private equity IT. (I also have some PE exposure via BTEM).

Very pleased to read the news yesterday regarding the restructuring - apart from anything else, if it makes it into the FTSE 250 it will be eligible for monthly investments with HL.
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Jeff Liddiard on 29/09/2017(UTC), Tim D on 29/09/2017(UTC), Jim S on 30/09/2017(UTC)
Jim S
Posted: 29 September 2017 21:03:49(UTC)
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SLPE is Europe focussed. Don't know if this means its NAV estimate might be more conservative than a more US-centric fund? SP discount from NAV is a bit low compared to its 1 year average, but its a bit volatile and might be worth a look, especially if NAV discount widens back to around 17-18%

I've read good things about PEY, shares are in Euros but I think its issuing a share class in pounds quite soon

I stumbled into PIN and PINR a few years ago, was lucky getting in at a very good price, and even luckier accidentally buying PINR by mistake instead of PIN when topping up. Have trimmed a bit on both but keeping faith.

Seems like the main PE investments trusts have mostly come off their high discounts, don't see many bargains any more.



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Jeff Liddiard on 29/09/2017(UTC)
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