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retirement income
keith jefferies
Posted: 08 September 2010 12:04:30(UTC)
#1

Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

We have invested in a mixture of AXA and Aviva investment bonds since 2005 and have become dissolussioned with the 2 advisors be have used.

We also have invested in a Close escalator FTSE linked ISA and hold some Barclays Shares.

I do apreciate market conditions have not helped on this period and we have lost money and incurred adisors charges.

I am in receipt of a final salary pension already.

We need to provide retirement income from around 2014/15 and do not know what products we should be looking at.

I would like to manage everything without an advisor and 'go it alone' taking a cautious approach
Alec McHale
Posted: 08 September 2010 12:58:39(UTC)
#2

Joined: 01/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2

Why invest in Investment Bonds, when you are obviously a Tax Payer. These funds incur a tax charge and advisor commission! You could probably invested in teh same funds though Co-funds at a fraction of the cost, and only face a capital gains tax liability!

If you still have earned income other than you final salary scheme you could make contributions to a personal pension, gaining valuable tax Relief.

You could maximise your ISA's both cash and stocks & shares. Look for protected products, to ensure your money is safe.

Employ an Indepent Financial Adviser who performs proper financial planning. They will not worry if you buy products form them or not, but will be able to show you what you need to do and what products are available. Expect to pay a fee for this service.

David Johnstone
Posted: 08 September 2010 13:37:21(UTC)
#3

Joined: 03/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 28

I am stunned you actually expect to get professional advice for free? If that is true then can I start by saying attitudes like the 'something for nothing' approach is ruining this country hence I do hope that posting on Citywire is not simply a means of getting free advice from an unqualified and unregulated source.

You don't mention how much risk you wish to take with your money. Do you wish to avoid any loss in capital value in real terms or just nominal terms? Do you want it onshore or offshore? Do you want to minimise your tax? Do you have any health problem s and what is life expectancy like in your family? What tax rate are you likley to pay in retirement? Do you have any other assets and do you intend selling shares in the future? Are you worried about having to pay for care costs in the future? If so, do you want to retain as much of your wealth outside the clutches of the local authority assessment test? Do you want access to specialist funds not available via a unit trust company? Would you like your money to grow free of income tax and free of capital gains tax and be outwith the clutches of the UK? Do you expect to pay for advice or are you prepared to do your own thing and risk making mistakes or would you rather pay for advice from an adviser who will eitrher take a commission or charge you a fee?

These initial questions are only scratching the surface.

You really ought to go talk to a proper Chartered Financial Planner and pay for good advice.

keith jefferies
Posted: 08 September 2010 14:12:09(UTC)
#4

Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

Thank you for your understanding response.

I am stunned by your reply, unless you are an advisor.

I was merely asking questions on an 'ask a question' forum to gain some general wide ranging views on the topic!

Spending a lot of money on proffessional advice has not provided value for money to me so far!

Acting on my own initiative has proved more fruitful, which is what I am doing here.
keith jefferies
Posted: 08 September 2010 14:13:43(UTC)
#5

Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

Thank you Alec for your helpful reply
Dennis .
Posted: 08 September 2010 16:34:29(UTC)
#6

Joined: 26/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 182

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 10 post(s)
Get an account with something like Hargreaves Lansdown and study their website for a few weeks, you will soon learn which funds are popular for growth or income and be able to see their recommendations as well as track records. Then do it yourself and then move into shares or ETFs or whatever. I am in the same situation with a good final salary pension and I currently stash away quite a lot of spare cash into Income generating funds (with income re-invested) in ISAs for me and the wife.

I am not sure that putting money into a pension in this situation is worthwhile even for allowing for the tax relief on the way in (since you pay tax on the way out). There used to be a good reason for using the tax relief if you were a higher rate tax payer during your working life and didn't expect to have pension earnings that high rate later on. However it's worth remembering that basic rate tax hasn't always been 20% (used to be over 30%) so you are also gambling on future government policy.
stormdog
Posted: 08 September 2010 16:55:26(UTC)
#7

Joined: 04/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 35

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
For David Johnstone:

Concerning the first paragraph of your reply.

Perhaps from your exceptionally high horse you may not have noticed that by and large it has been highly regulated and very qualified people - the financial 'great and good' - who recently have all but bankrupted our country.

In the eyes of many, those members of what can best be described as being of the 'upper working class' are now a totally busted flush.

This lack of credibility has been brought about by their having been seen as having less conscience than South London fourth-hand car dealers. Not all of course, yet mud once thrown splatters and sticks.

It started with Lloyd's, then Equitable Life and since then down-hill all the way until we all found out that a huge number of MPs. have had their snouts in the trough.

Sir, the outside world has changed.

With the new concerns about the EU banks it seems that the large changes presently taking place will continue for sometime to come, perhaps even in a more radical way than anyone can presently imagine.

Whether this looming shake up will in the long-run be for good or ill (as far as the Britain and those who live here are concerned) is of course only known to God.

personally if I have to be ripped off, I would much rather it was done by a good ol' boy from 'Sarth' London than an incompetent twit that I happened to be at school with, at least it will be done with a smile.

Really, you owe Mr. Jefferies an apology for your first paragraph. As to your second paragraph it seems reasonably down to earth and sane.




David Johnstone
Posted: 08 September 2010 17:18:24(UTC)
#8

Joined: 03/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 28

To Stormdog. Ref your rant. Professional qualified advice given freely? I know of no other profession that works for nothing. To expect to get good quality professional advice for free is just nonsense. To believe it is available is deluded. May I politely remind you that by taking properly qualified regulated advice Mr Jefferies gets the added protection of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme if the firm that advises gets declared in default and the Financial Ombudsman Service which can make compensation rulings in cases where a firm is deemed to have given inappropritae / unsuitable advice. Or maybe you expect do-it-yourself advice to be compensated too?

Therefore if a member of the public, whoever they are, decides to self advise, they should not have recourse to investor protection nor should they expect to receive free advice from non-regulated individuals whish is in fact against the law.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry can pick up certain information on the web but it is the wrinkles that are so important, or pending legislation changes or fund manager departures / takeovers etc that make the difference bettween properly informed advice and buying a Money Week once a month in Sainsbury's when you do the Sunday shop.

My point is simple. Some people expect the earth and pay nothing for it.

No apology necessary. I continue to me amazed at the naiivetty of people who genuinely think they would get good quality advice on a forum like this. Please!
Dennis .
Posted: 08 September 2010 17:55:07(UTC)
#9

Joined: 26/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 182

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 10 post(s)
I think that the point being made is that IFAs generally are in it to sell the products best for themselves and their employers. Have you ever had a "financial review" by a bank or building society? It's just a joke - they just trying selling in house bonds with high charges etc. Let's face it, investing is about guessing the future and one man's guess is as good as another's and not getting overcharged for so called advice in the process. I am in the process of moving more of my portfolio into ETFs to reduce charges further.
munty
Posted: 08 September 2010 17:55:32(UTC)
#10

Joined: 18/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

The problem is of course getting good quality advice even when paying for it. The fact that someone is a qualified professional doesn't mean that the advice they give is any good at all. You only have to look at the recent investment performance of many professional companies to see that.

The charges made by investment management companies are not related to their performance. Perhaps if they mirrored the gains and losses made by the client it would improve matters.


Chairman2
Posted: 08 September 2010 18:26:54(UTC)
#11

Joined: 26/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

For KJ

You appear to have an unsuitable portfolio to put it mildly

Chalk up another black mark for Financial advice.

If it wasnt for the thousands of examples like your's the Financial services industry
might have justification for its existence. Financial advice is badly needed - but I
personally wouldnt recommend buying it.

You say you need an incolme stream. That means converting your bonds as they fall due
into and income producing fund. Financial advisors will rabbit on about risk, and tell you
to diversify - and you should depending on the practicalities of how much you have to invest.

There are masses of opportunities at the moment to invest for income - producing higher
net yields than bonds. I would go for a managed mixed fund combining some bonds and
some equities.

You have correctly identified charges and commissions in a low yield environment as
absolute performance killers. You will not find them recoomended by almost any
financial advisers 'cos they pay no commission but with Total exp[ense Ratios (the key
metric you should always ask about) The US owned Vanguard Funds now available in
the Uk but not from brokers like Hargreaves Lansdowne have the lowest in the biz - down to
lower than 0.5% - and that is not at the expense of performance since Vanguard buy
funds from the best perfoming Fund Managers in the business. Oh and in the States Vanguard are
one of the biggest - bigger than Fidelity for example.

PS keep you IS but switch investents -
stormdog
Posted: 08 September 2010 19:02:09(UTC)
#12

Joined: 04/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 35

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Mr. Johnstone, Sir,

I am in fact questioning the alleged competence of the majority of people whose job it is is to offer financial advice and charge for it

In my near sixty years of involvement in financial markets it is patent that the best method is to do your own research and then when getting utterly stuck be prepared to pay through the nose for the best advice that is available.

People who have money, and are not just plain incompetent, should take full responsibility for their finances to themselves by getting involved and not relying solely upon 'professional' advisers who have 'all of the power and none of the responsibility'.

Of course I am not saying that people should just trawl the web and so on, oh please Sir!
Are you so threatened that you now have to become silly?

When dealing with matters financial, all information is welcome, no matter the source, this also includes the views of so named experts who are in the main middle of the road employees, the most skilled having left to make money on their own accounts.

I quite agree that professionals have some uses, however to consider them to be any more competent than anyone else is not necessarily borne out by recent experience as is clearly evidenced by the dire state of our economy.

Please understand well, whilst you are now talking about out and out fraud, I was not, except in the case of the Sarth London car dealer.

If one of your cherished professionals gives incompetent advice then all can be lost and the victim has effectively had all his money ripped from him, there is nothing left.
If the car dealer sells you a dressed up dud then the outcome is the same, except that the victim is left with a heap of scrap metal that today has value.

So in short:

Do your own research.
Be sceptical and investigate everything that soi-disant 'professionals' want you to do or buy into.
Always your own decisions, at least then if it goes wrong it is your own fault and then stand tough!

I fear for people like our Mr Jefferies, from what he writes he hasn't got much of a chance. If he trusts his financial affairs to someone else he will be like the old Lloyd's members who just paid over their money to agents in trusting that the income would pay the school fees and ended up losing their houses and sometimes their lives. However Mr Jefferies states that he wishes to go his own way, yet he lacks knowledge, he may well end up as a sitting duck, I hope not.

Finally.

In fact I think that know you.

I totally and utterly understand where you are coming from and I agree with some of that which you have written.

Despite this I feel you have not as yet demonstrated sufficient vision to enable your arguments to really stand up and win through in today's slightly topsy-turvy world of finance.

Good luck to you though.


satish mittal
Posted: 08 September 2010 22:04:37(UTC)
#13

Joined: 21/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 21

Mr johnstone said 'I am stunned you actually expect to get professional advice for free? If that is true then can I start by saying attitudes like the 'something for nothing' approach is ruining this country hence I do hope that posting on Citywire is not simply a means of getting free advice from an unqualified and unregulated source.'
Mr Johnstone should prove his allegations that Citywire s not simply a means of getting free advice from an unqualified and unregulated source.' I have been investin in stocks & share since 1980. Initially I used Professional advisors but got frusted and subsequently managed my porfolio myself but with some ups and down but more ups than down. Getting advice from Citywire , Finacial pages of daily papers or magazine is not actually free as they earn money indirectly through some other sourse.
Having compared the portfolio of Citywire, Hargreaves Lansdown, Best Invest, fidelity, I find Citywire most trustworthy. I have no finacial interest in Citywire. I am a reired GP. Mr Johnstone should substantiate his claims which he can do by mentioning the funds by nane which Citywire have have excluded from their recommendations. I read their recommendations and compare before investin in the funds. If Mr Johnstone is right, I will not waste my time readind Citywire reports anymore.
Satish Mittal
Rick. Y.
Posted: 08 September 2010 23:49:32(UTC)
#14

Joined: 16/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

Dear Keith,
Like you, I have become disillusioned with "Independant" financial advice over the years and am self investing. I have tried to maximise my ISA's for both myself and spouse and am also deal directly in Stocks and Shares. I have tried to diversfy my ISA's far and wide and my share portfolio is a mixture of high yielding,growth stocks and some speculative.
Hargreave Lansdown are a good company to put your ISA.s into, as they provide a reduced charging system which allows more of your investment to stay within your fund and not your IFA's account.
David Johnstone is correct in saying there is no such thing as free advice, so I pay for a share analysis service up-front.
There are other websites you can use apart from Citywire, which although very good, is populated with a lot of afore-mentioned IFA's .
A good initial point to start would be to join the Motley Fool, which is primarily similar minded people. Look at their forums but take share tips with a pinch of salt.
Trustnet is also a good resource for researching Funds and you can monitor all your funds within their website
I would not like to advise you what to invest in for such a short time frame, but I'm sure there will be some ideas on the "Fool".
Finally, I would like to say that it whilst you may not be able to maximise your returns by going it alone, you do have the satisfaction of making your own decisions, you know where to point the finger for any mistakes made,and you can act far quicker to minimise your errors.
I hope this has been of some help,
Yours Sincerely,
Rick Yorston
Ivor Nestegg
Posted: 09 September 2010 08:43:58(UTC)
#15

Joined: 16/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 38

Re; "My point is simple. Some people expect the earth and pay nothing for it. "

And equally some people expect to be paid fees even when their services have cost their clients money.

Your arrogance astounds me sir!
keith jefferies
Posted: 09 September 2010 08:50:48(UTC)
#16

Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

Thank you stormdog, rick Y and everyone for their positive support and helpful answers.
Roger May
Posted: 09 September 2010 09:49:33(UTC)
#17

Joined: 03/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4

What worries me is the "tunnel-vision" approach to growth and income stocks.

It seems to me that if you have £1,000 and invest it in a blue-chip share, or a unit trust, which gives a dividend of 5% but zero growth, at the end of the year you have £1,050 (ignoring the effects of inflation). If you choose poorly (say BP) you could end up with £900.

If, on the other hand, you invest the £1,000 in Scottish Oriental Smaller Companies investment trust (which I must admit sounds horrendously risky, but has beaten the FTSE All-Share for the last 5 years), you could well end up with £1,500. You then sell enough of the shares to give you the required level of income, 5%. You still have £1,450. In practice you would probably sell something else in your portfolio that wasn't performing so well, so you would get the further benefit of compounding for the next year.

This is NOT rocket science. It needs a good deal of homework and the courage of your convictions, and an acceptance that the good old days of "buy-well-and-hold" are gone forever. But you CANNOT treat equities or unit trusts as if they were bank accounts. You have a pretty good chance of losing money. If the banks won't play ball and give you a decent rate of interest on a deposit, you have no real option but to take the initiative yourself.

I am not an IFA, I am a private investor. In my experience good IFAs are like hen's teeth.
keith jefferies
Posted: 09 September 2010 10:16:39(UTC)
#18

Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7

Thank you Mr Johnstone..............light the blue touch and retire to a safe distance.

Your replies have have provoked some useful viewpoints and entertaining discussion, exactly as intended.
Malcolm Lewis
Posted: 09 September 2010 16:23:30(UTC)
#19

Joined: 04/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3

Interesting discussion which perhaps best illustrates why investors are best protected by doing their own research and then making their own decisions.

As has been mentioned there is a lot of free information out there on trustnet and on Citywire for investors to use and then make their own decisions.

placing investments via Cofunds and Hargreaves Landown - both of which are proven, excellent organisations will then save the investor money.

Of course this will leave out the "wrinkles" mentioned by Mr Johnstone but the investor will have formulated his own rationale for investing as he did, will probably do as well as the expensive IFA who may know a lot about investment vehicles which pay him the best commisssion but probably does not know a lot about the funds themselves.

Importantly too the investor will save alot of money in so called "professional" fees.
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