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Will we ever wean Britain off booze?
Deborah Hyde (Citywire)
Posted: 01 September 2010 11:45:38(UTC)
#1

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 36

New research has surprise, surprise shown that us Brits drink too much.

One in four Brits overdrinks and booze accounts for a substantial percentage of crimes, domestic violence and health problems in this country.

But while the research is unlikely to be news to many of us I cannot see it actually changing our view of drink.

From the gout-suffering guzzlers of regency Bath, to working men's clubs in Victorian times, from business meetings to short-skirted hens on a saturday night out alcohol is a must-do for many of us.

Can you remember the last time you met up with friends and no-one drank any alcohol? Have you, like me, tried to socialise sober only to find your friends buy you a drink anyway? And with a glass of the amber nectar in front of you do you feel churlish to refuse the gift?

At business meetings, a refusal to drink can often be a hindrance to building better relations. After all, for many of us a teetotaller is a humourless killjoy.

And at the end of a stressful day don't we all deserve a drink to help us unwind?

Tony Blair certainly drowned his worries at the bottom of a bottle.

Numerous public health campaigns over the years have done little to challenge the British belief that booze is a ‘harmless’ drug.

But the fact of the matter is that booze has many victims and as a society we pay a heavy price for our love of the bottle.

Liverpool John Moores University's Professor Mark Bellis says 'It is time to recognise that we are not a population of responsible drinkers with just a handful of irresponsible individuals ruining it for others.'

The previous government's attempts to extend drinking hours seem to have done little so what should we do now?

Mark Littlewood, Director General of the Institute of Economic Affairs, thinks current policies mean that people are spared the consequences of their actions.

'If we want people to act like responsible adults, we must treat them as such. Free healthcare incentivises irresponsible behaviour. The NHS should be reformed so that people pay for their behaviour in a direct and fair way,' he says.

He believes how much we drink should be down to us and we - not the taxpayer - should pay the price if we drink irresponsibly.

But would that really put an end to the problem? What would happen to the poor that cannot afford their treatment? Can we as a society say they shouldn't be treated for high cost long-term treatments such as addiction therapy? Should we turn away battered partners unless their abusers are willing to pay? Should anyone who has ever had a drink be charged or refused treatment?

If not, at what level of alcohol consumption should we refuse treatment?

Are there any other solutions that what would work?
Cognoscenti 36
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:30:29(UTC)
#2

Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

Regrettably there appears to be only one way to slow the increasing consumption of alcohol and that is via the purse. Alcohol must be made to be relatively much more expensive. It will not stop many people drinking too much but it will inhibit a great number over time. I am in favour of the proposal that Mark Littlewoood makes but with the proviso that it would be very difficult to administer. So far as the poor are concerned they should stop drinking and smoking. Sadly it is this underclass that through desperation as to their circumstances waste the most money that might otherwise be used to help to improve their lives. Catch 22!
Anonymous Post
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:32:24(UTC)
#3
Anonymous 1 needed this 'Off the Record'

Of course drunks should be made to pay for any medical attention made necessary by their over drinking and just to make sure that we dont spend more money chasing their debts confiscate their wallets/cash/cards/ID/etc at the same time, until the NHS is fully recompensed.
RC
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:34:43(UTC)
#4

Joined: 14/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 25

Increase the tax on alcohol 20% a year for ten years, more on spirits (reduce tax on drinks sold in pubs), improve public health & specifically use the proceeds pay down the national debt.
MC
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:38:00(UTC)
#5

Joined: 25/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5

Whilst I agree that free healthcare promotes irresponsible behaviour such as heavy alcohol consumption (but see also smokers, drug users and danerous sport enthusiasts - rock climbing, motorcross, base jumping etc) any attempts to change the system would risk preventing those who need treatment from seeking it to avoid paying a penalty.

The result of such a scheme would be a lot more teenagers sending their friends home to 'sleep it off' when they really need to go to A&E to get their stomachs pumped. A few headlines revoloving around poor idiots choking on their own vomit rather than go to A&E would kill off the whole idea. Ultimately the consensus in this country is that people SHOULD be responsible for their own actions but it is up to the government to pick up the pieces if they choose not to.
Long Gone Expat
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:45:17(UTC)
#6

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 15

To those that say "increase the price" why should everyone else have to pay so much extra to enjoy a shared bottle of wine over dinner just because some people cannot control themselves? You wont stop the big boozers boozing even then, no more than people that do will stop smoking or doing drugs, but there is no need to penalise responsible drinkers at the same time.

My cardiologist told me to have a glass or two of red wine a day as it was a better way to relieve stress than take pills.

Better I think to charge those people who are in casualty on a weekend night unable to stand up etc, for the medical services they use. That would be much fairer.
MC
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:48:10(UTC)
#7

Joined: 25/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5

Cognoscenti 36, the issue with increasing the cost of alcohol is that it simply will not work for two reasons:
1) If the kids can't afford alcohol then they will seek another form of intoxication i.e. drugs. Why pay £10 for a bottle of cider when you can get an ecstasy pill for as little as £3. They will simply swap alcohol for illegal drugs.
2) The governments attempts at prohibition of illegal drugs has not worked with prices getting lower year on year. So what chance would they have at restricting access to cheap alcohol when you only need to drive to Calais to fill a van with the stuff.
Anonymous Post
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:49:13(UTC)
#8
Anonymous 2 needed this 'Off the Record'

I agree with Mark Littlewoods comments, it is high time people learnt to take personal responsibilty for their actions and not expect the tax payer to support their reckless behaviour. The seven deadly sins now are excused as an alternative lifestyle, the cost of which has to be funded by the rest of us. Why should the problesm caused by greed and promiscuity be funded by someone else.
Sheila
Posted: 01 September 2010 12:50:16(UTC)
#9

Joined: 29/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1

You ask, "what would happen to the poor who could not afford their treatment" -- but they are not so poor as to not be able to buy drink, cigarettes, etc in the first place!
If we were made to pay for treatment of conditions that we create (by smoking, excess drink, etc) perhaps (and I only say "perhaps") some might think twice about their actions. More likely the next generations would learn they need to be responsible for their actions and not always expect someone else to pick up the pieces.
Less drinking, smoking , etc would mean a substantially healthier nation with much lower NHS costs -- and the money we do spend could be spent on conditions beyond our control (not ones that we have brought on ourselves)...It could also mean savings on police (or better use of funds for police), etc
Deborah Hyde (Citywire)
Posted: 01 September 2010 13:05:28(UTC)
#10

Joined: 10/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 36

I am not willing to pay more to drink alcohol and I do not see that I should be penalised for the stupidity of others. Most smokers are in low income groups and cannot afford to smoke but that does not stop them and they cut back on other things such as a decent diet to find the money.

We live in a supposedly free society where people are able to make their own choices and it is subjective as to what is good or bad. Smokers and drinkers will often say that life is finite and that they would prefer to lose a few years and enjoy the time they have rather than live to be old in tedium.

I suggest that the NHS no longer treats people for alcohol induced illness and the money saved can be applied for more deserving cases.
Steve P
Posted: 01 September 2010 13:11:01(UTC)
#11

Joined: 02/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 20

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Why do so many of these articles talk about alcohol use/misuse as if it is solely a British problem?

Drinking is a part of British culture, but also common to many Anglo-Saxon countries around the world, as well as countries in Northern Europe. It is not part of the culture to the same degree in Southern Europe, where alcohol usually just accompanies a meal.

Change the culture (if you can!) and you will reduce drinking. No amount of tax will really prevent drinking, as the experience of Scandinavian countries shows.
DAVID ROBERTSON
Posted: 01 September 2010 13:32:12(UTC)
#12

Joined: 30/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2

Do the economic arguments stand up regarding the "cost" of an individual's excessive drinking? As with tobacco, alcohol is very heavily taxed and contributes significant amounts to the exchequer annually. Additionally, how much is saved in state pension costs by premature deaths caused by excessive drinking (or tobacco consumption)? Has anyone ever carried out a full and proper study rather than just homing in on the additional "cost"?
Al
Posted: 01 September 2010 13:47:04(UTC)
#13

Joined: 09/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 20

Yawn. No different from fags or vehicle ownership - costly, dangerous and taxed like crazy as some sort of recompense. However, there is a tipping point with the usual easy answer of more taxation. Keep the masses happy to prevent revolution like the petrol strikes.Alcohol tax increases have increased consumption as folk get tanked up at home even before going out. Tax any more and it puts the booze cruise to Ireland / France back on the agenda and what do folk do with a garage full of the stuff shouting 'come and get me' at them? We can all be weak inm the face of temptation - me and Tony included.

And we can talk all we want about taxation, education, legislation, punishment. The bigger picture is create wealth, jobs, better standard of living & aspirations and the benefits of lower alcohol consumption will follow as people have their lives filled with work, further education and the need to show up at their job the following day to get paid.
kevin clayton
Posted: 01 September 2010 16:21:25(UTC)
#14

Joined: 21/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2

I would just like to see those that turn up at A&E worse the wear because of drink charged for their treatment. That would at least be a start
Anthony Tinslay
Posted: 01 September 2010 17:05:41(UTC)
#15

Joined: 05/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 10

Quite right Kevin. Same comments go regards Obesity, apart from those with a genuine genetic or other serious medical condition, and also the druggies. However give everyone a chance. First strike and you get treated and put on a register. Second strike and you pay. 3rd and subsequent strike and you are put in to detention where you work for the good of the community and earn your way out in due course. People who cost the ordinary taxpayers so much need to be made to realise their self inflicted problems and eventually they will hopefull re-join the "normal" society
Alan Tonks
Posted: 01 September 2010 17:14:18(UTC)
#16

Joined: 09/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 11

We do like wasting money on researching problems that we already know about.

Well I expect most of you who drink too much will say it is fun to be drunk. I on the other hand would say that drinking to get drunk is totally moronic.

If I am in company and I have had what I deem my quota of drink then I will have an orange juice or some other soft drink. If that makes me the laughing stock of the company I am with, then so be it. I will always have the last laugh when the inebriated antics of drunken fools reveal themselves.

Yes Tony Blair, it is a pity it wasn’t a very big bottle and he drowned in it, foul creature.

Drink like drugs costs the state therefore the tax payer a fortune. Why then should responsible people have to pay for other peoples self inflicted ailments.
S M
Posted: 01 September 2010 17:36:05(UTC)
#17

Joined: 05/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5

Thanks: 2 times
That will do wonders for the illegal trade in booze (just as it has for tobacco)

Booze cruises will grow to be a bigger trade than the more legal side of things
Prohibition and by price, have been proven time and again not to work

Hit the perpentrators hard, in the pocket
murry evans
Posted: 01 September 2010 19:22:14(UTC)
#18

Joined: 14/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 10

Wow, this is like reading the Daily Mail!!!!!

You could stop drinking and smoking and live an extra 20 years in a p*ss ridden nursing home, not able to wipe your own Rs costing the NHS gazillions. Or get a life and just die a little younger to give your children the benefits of your hard earned savings before the government takes them away to pay for the above care.

Thee are probably more people dying of cancer from p;lastic fumes in new cars, or air fresheners, or burnt bacon, or catalytic converter fumes, or mobile phone radiation, or, or, or,,,,,,,list goes on.

The majority of people don't drink to excess, so stop trying to put up taxes and creating the rip off Britain we had in the 80's and 90's.

And should we all become purist, go to church and think good thoughts all the time?

Honestly!!!!!
Anonymous Post
Posted: 02 September 2010 00:38:25(UTC)
#19
Anonymous 3 needed this 'Off the Record'

The problem is that if we adopt the attitude that everyone should pay for the consequences of their actions, then this embraces all aspects of life. So we refuse to treat those who are injured in road accidents if it was their fault. We refuse to treat the 1 in 4 who are obese. Then we refuse benefits to those who cannot get a job as they did no work at school. We withdraw all child benefits as having children is a choice, and if one cannot afford them you do not have them. In fact we refuse to help anyone who takes a risk and fails. We end up in a jungle society.

If we put up prices, then this will encourage a black market, and is actually the opposite of the growing realisation that all drugs should be made legal to avoid funding criminals.

Education is the key, and also the tolerance to realise that some people have to make mistakes to learn.

On the other hand, as we are overpopulated ..............
George Hill
Posted: 02 September 2010 09:42:05(UTC)
#20

Joined: 10/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 29

MC states that 1) If the kids can't afford alcohol then they will seek another form of intoxication i.e. drugs.

Utter nonsense! NOT every kid is weak enough to "seek" another form etc etc. The fault lies ENTIRELY with the booze industry - when they introduced ALCOPOPS. In MY day (I am a Scot so have some experience of drink!!!) it meant when a youngster tried drink for the first time, many INSTANTLY disliked the taste - and very often didn't try again - the remainder, like me, persevered to become proper drunks. I have many friends who have never drunk since that first experience and are quite happy NOT drinking. They didn't automatically turn to drugs. These days, EVERY kid who tries alcohol LIKES it right away (If they DON'T they simply try some other idiotically-flavoured kiddy drink) and are soon addicted No period of persevering and EVENTUALLY liking it. It's instant! Next stage up from ice lollies. We proper boozers are a determined bunch. I should say, WERE - nowadays, for kids, it's a very steep and slippery path with no stage of hating the stuff but just keeping on drinking innocuous flavoured drinks until it's too late and they then NEED the stuff.

Ban alcopops and MANY kids will stop drinking. Yes, we DO have a drink culture in this country - and I'm pretty happy with that, by and large, and we have had it a LONG time. Today's problem is that, because of alcopops and the easy "path" to alcoholism, almost every kiddy who starts on these alcohol drinks disguised as sweets will end up with a related problem of some sort - a proportion in the future that's FAR higher that the drink culture we've (fairly) happily had for ages.
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